Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 12 May 2021

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport

Digital Green Certificate and Rapid Antigen Testing: Discussion

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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No apologies have been received. We are continuing our discussion on rapid antigen testing and the digital green certificate, DGC, in an aviation context. There is a wider remit as well in terms of tourism and industry.

The purpose of the first part of our meeting is to discuss the experiences of the implementation of rapid antigen testing in an airport setting. On behalf of the committee, I welcome Mr. Ivan Bassato, executive vice president, airport management, Rome Airport and Mr. Sergio Berlenghi, head of public affairs, Rome Airport. You are welcome and thank you for agreeing to participate in this meeting at short notice.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Mr. Berlenghi is on my left but is not visible on camera.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The first part of our meeting will be for one hour before we suspend and bring in the second set of witnesses for the second hour of the meeting. We will deal with developments in rapid polymerase chain reaction, PCR, testing.

I will set out the note on privilege. All witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory with regard to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Witnesses attending remotely from outside the Leinster House campus should note that there are some limitations to parliamentary privilege and, as such, they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings as a witness who is physically present. Witnesses participating in this committee session from a jurisdiction outside the State should also be mindful of their domestic law and how it may apply to the evidence they give.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I wish to remind members of the constitutional requirement whereby they must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit, namely, Leinster House or the Convention Centre Dublin, to participate in public meetings. Unfortunately, I will not be able to permit a member to participate where he or she is not adhering to the constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be reluctantly asked to leave the meeting. In this regard I am asking members partaking via MS Teams that prior to making a contribution in the meeting they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus. Anyone watching the meeting online should note that Oireachtas Members and witnesses are accessing this meeting remotely. Only I, as Chairman, and the necessary staff for the running of the meeting are physically present in the committee room due to Covid-19 restrictions. Due to these unprecedented circumstances and the large number of people attending the committee meeting remotely, I appeal to everyone to bear with us should any technical difficulties arise.

I call Mr. Bassato to make his opening statement. He has five minutes. We are very much looking forward to the outline of what he has done in the area of transatlantic travel with John F. Kennedy, JFK, International Airport in terms of rapid antigen testing. A pilot programme is under way there.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

My thanks to Mr. Larkin and the joint committee for the interest in our experience at Aeroporti di Roma. Since the last time we had the opportunity to present the status of operations in Rome many developments have taken place. We last presented to the joint committee in 2020. We can report on the progress and on developments on the field here in Fiumicino.

The current situation with the vaccination campaign in Italy is that we are approaching approximately 30% of the population having at least one dose of a vaccine. The vaccination campaign has been rolled out and has been gaining speed in the past weeks and months but we still have a view in the airport as I reported in Rome, to the aviation industry, that for some months or maybe years, we will have to coexist with the coronavirus in our system. We will have to be strict and effective in continuing to adopt all the necessary prevention measures and ensuring testing protocols are robust and efficient. I am glad to have the opportunity to report to the committee about this.

With regard to safe transportation, the safety protocols have remained the same since the first wave of the pandemic in Italy. A thorough set of rules was established by law in our country in April and May 2020. The airport industry adopted and consistently follow those rules. At this stage, we do not have any outbreaks due to procedural gaps or failure to comply with the rules. The risk of infection onboard is minimal when preventive measures are properly adopted by airports and airlines. The focus since last autumn, on the state's side, has been to avoid spreading infection across regions. As we stated as an airport, the trust-based quarantines adopted by Italy and many other EU countries, and not only European, proved not to be the best tool that we have available due to the fact that it is difficult to enforce.

Travel protocols based on pre-departure testing and, where necessary, on the repetition of a test upon arrival are, in our opinion, the best way forward while the vaccination campaign is rolled out. Covid-tested flights, as we named them in Fiumicino, are a strategy that we started in autumn 2020. In September 2020, we had the first Covid-tested domestic flight from Rome to Milan. We did it not because Rome and Milan, within the same country, showed different risk levels, but because we wanted to prove at the time that Covid testing could be efficiently and safely integrated in the airport process. We were successful and continued that testing on the domestic routes for five months but, on 23 November 2020, the Italian Government passed a law that approved the start of the experimentation with the first transoceanic Covid-tested corridor between some locations in the USA, namely New York City's international airport and Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, and Rome-Fiumicino. This traded trust-based quarantine on arrival for a double negativity control for 100% of passengers.

The first Covid-tested flight was on 8 December 2020. It was an Alitalia flight from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York to Rome-Fiumicino. It was followed a few days later by the first flight by Delta Airlines between Atlanta and Rome. We continue to adopt the protocol. I will show the results. Now there are four airlines operating five routes between the USA and Rome-Fiumicino, for a total of 18 arrivals per week. We have 18 flights using this protocol arriving from the USA to Rome-Fiumicino and 18 flights departing. The protocol states that passengers have to test negative for Covid in the 48 hours before boarding. Both molecular and antigen tests are accepted by our authorities. If they test negative in the 48 hours before departure, they can board the plane and once they disembark in Rome, they are immediately retested by the health authorities of the region of Rome in co-operation with the airport, with a rapid antigen test.

The protocol has been adopted by the UN World Tourism Organization as a viable strategy to restart tourism as a reference benchmark worldwide. It became a model for other locations in Italy and elsewhere. It was approved for flights to Milan, for example, in early way.

Regarding the results, as of 2 May 2021, we had 12,036 arriving passengers pretested according to the protocol in our airport. The first test with the negative result was taken by these passengers before leaving the USA. Some 29 passengers out of these 12,036 tested positive with rapid testing but were not confirmed as positive by molecular testing, so there were 29 false positives. Some 15 passengers tested positive with antigen testing and were confirmed by molecular testing. There were 15 confirmed Covid cases out of 12,036 people, which is 0.12%. The second barrier of testing in Rome resulted in identifying 1.2 passengers out of every 1,000 arriving as having Covid, who were handled in accordance with healthcare provisions. It means that the persons who tested negative on the first test and the second test amounted to 11,992.

In co-operation with the health authorities, we did a follow-up analysis of people in the 14 days after entering the country and we did not find evidence of a significantly higher number of persons who tested positive after having tested negative at departure and arrival. It is difficult to conduct this investigation and it is beyond the competence of an airport authority or airport operator like ourselves. In the investigation, we did not find any evidence that the numbers were significantly different. An analysis should be done if a person tests positive ten days after the moment since entering the country to determine where he or she was infected. Our authorities consider this result excellent with regard to risk minimisation and operational effectiveness. The passengers were satisfied with their experience and, in almost 100% of cases, they would recommend it to others and to extend the trials. We are in discussions with the government to extend the number of locations in the US that can be connected via Covid-tested flights.

For the time being, even our Prime Minister and many ministers confirm that this protocol is a viable protocol. In the second part of May, even if decisions were not taken at this stage, but they are due in the next days, we expect that this will be used as an effective tool for a safe restart of tourism to Italy.

Finally, we think that preflight testing should be extended. Indeed, the government has been doing that because now travelling to Italy, and to many other countries in the EU, can be done only if there is a negative test before boarding. We think that the utilisation of digital platforms is of absolute importance. We have worked consistently on this matter in the past six months. Since early January, we piloted also a health app by using one of the platforms available on the market, in our case, AOKpass, and we are actively co-operating at a European level and a national level for the digital green certificates. On the European digital green certificates, we are supporting and working with our colleagues from Brussels of the organisation, the association of European airports, and we are working with our government for the national digital green certificate.

We expect that there will be an increase of the traffic flows over the summer. We do not know exactly when this will happen but we expect that it will happen. The digital platforms are a key aspect of a safe restart of air travel. We are, as I say, supporting fully our government and the European authorities to make this happen.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Have you concluded, Mr. Bassato? I am conscious of time. We have roughly 45 minutes for members' questions. Are you comfortable to proceed to questions?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

I am comfortable to do that. I thank you again. I am available for questions.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Before you go there, do the 12,000 passengers purely relate to transatlantic flights?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

They are. Those passengers were on board flights that started on 8 December last and are continuing.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Are they purely transatlantic flights?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Yes.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I will now move to the members. Deputy O'Rourke, representing Sinn Féin, has approximately three minutes. I am conscious of time.

Photo of Darren O'RourkeDarren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Chair. I will move quickly to questions.

I thank Mr. Bassato for his presentation. In Ireland, we have a protocol that is a pre-departure PCR test within 72 hours of departure, mandatory hotel quarantine, which follows a strict regime for countries with variants of concern, and for everybody else - the majority of travellers - a trust-based quarantine system, as he mentioned. Italy's protocol nvolves a pre-departure PCR or antigen test and then a post-arrival antigen test. Is the post-arrival antigen test done in the airport as the passenger waits, is it a single post-arrival test or is it serial testing? Is there an obligation to quarantine at home or anywhere else or does the testing regime address that? Finally, have Italy's public health officials approved the system? Have they confidence in it? Does Mr Bassato believe that the system has the confidence of the travelling public and the public at large?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Should I answer immediately or will be there a series of questions?

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Answer individually.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

In our country, we have mandatory quarantine only for some specific countries where the passengers are from and where we have variant concerns. This was implemented, for example, for passengers arriving from India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka very recently. In general, quarantines in Italy have been implemented as trust-based quarantines. In the case of the Covid-tested transoceanic corridor, the testing is done immediately after disembarkation - a few steps after passengers are out of the plane. It is applied to 100% of the passengers. It is an antigen test. It enjoys the confidence of the public health authorities because the test is performed by them. We have an agreement. Initially, in the first phase of the pilot, the test was administered for free. It is no more like that. We have an agreement with a most important institute of Italy based in Rome for transmissible diseases to carry out the test directly at the airport. The doctors, nurses and the testing kits are provided by the public health authorities that are administering the test directly. I do not know if I said that the price for the test is €20, and that is mandatory.

Photo of Darren O'RourkeDarren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I have just one follow-up question. Is it still the case that there is a trust-base quarantine system in place, a passenger has a post-arrival test but is still expected to quarantine for a period?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Not for these passengers. This is the only exception in the national regulations. The experimentation is carried out in accordance with the law and we are authorised by the law of Italy. There is a general rule for trust-based quarantines still valid in Italy for five days for all passengers arriving from European countries and ten days from all other countries. This Covid-tested transoceanic corridor is the only exception to that rule. To other passengers, a trust-based quarantine rule applies. It is five days for Europe and ten days for other countries, with rules for some specific countries with variants of concern, such as Brazil and India, but this is another exception.

Photo of Darren O'RourkeDarren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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It is an important point that the post-arrival antigen testing affords people the opportunity to avoid the quarantine requirement and the results have been outlined there. That is something that we can note as a committee. I thank Mr. Bassato.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Deputy O'Connor has three minutes in the Fianna Fail slot.

Photo of James O'ConnorJames O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Bassato for his interesting information from Italy. There is much interest in how an economy such as our own, which is a small island economy on the western periphery of Europe, will be able to get transatlantic travel back and I am so happy to hear that there are other European democracies that are ploughing ahead in providing their own systems to allow the reinstatement of transatlantic travel.

I wanted to ask Mr. Bassato some questions, basically about the Italian Government in terms of his own airport. From the perspective of the agencies that are advising the government in his country, how much engagement does he as an airport executive have with the scientific agencies that are advising government on restrictions? The reason I ask is, in Ireland, we have particular issues regarding this matter and it is causing much difficulty for us as parliamentarians who are trying to help the aviation sector.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

We have a limited interaction with the agencies the Deputy talked about. Of course, we have in Italy, as in other countries, a supreme scientific panel or committee of scientists and researchers supporting the government in its decisions. Of course, we interact with this body or committee.

For example, we presented this protocol at the beginning and received some comments to adjust the protocol that, in the end, was passed by a decree of the government. We have more interaction with representatives of the government, especially the minister for transportation, as is normal in such circumstances. With the scientific bodies advising the government, we had formal, limited interaction but it was interaction on the operation of the protocol and with certain inputs from the scientific body to modify the protocol.

Photo of James O'ConnorJames O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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My second question is an important one. When does Mr. Bassato envisage a full return to leisure travel between North America and Italy? When will Italian citizens get back to a degree of normality where they are free to engage in transatlantic travel? This question is on the minds of many parliamentarians interested in aviation. When does Mr. Bassato foresee Italian citizens being able to travel to the US on holidays en masse, as was the case prior to Covid? Does he have a specific timeline? Could we see by the end of the year a degree of normality coming back for people who are fully vaccinated in terms of transatlantic travel? Has he had discussions with the European Commission on that issue?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

One thing I did not mention in my presentation was that, right now, tourists from the US are still not admitted into Italy. Passengers that can travel on these corridors are doing so for essential reasons. They are exempted from quarantine if they test negative upon arrival but tourists still cannot come. We foresee changes, based on the statements of our Prime Minister and government officials, in the coming weeks rather than days. For example, 16 May is another date that some regulations can be changed. It is an opportunity for change and we do not know what decisions the government will take. We think in the next two weeks the protocols will allow tourists, under certain conditions that have to be safe, to travel to Italy. Covid-tested flights could be a protocol to be used by the government to enable this to occur effectively. I would say that in the next month, in any case, we will have a requirement for people visiting for tourism to prove their vaccination status or, at least, to test.

Photo of James O'ConnorJames O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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That is significant. I thank Mr. Bassato. It is interesting that the Italian Government is making noises about transatlantic travel coming back and it looks like Italian citizens will have that news within a number of weeks. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the situation here. It is important we stress we need clarification on that point in the Republic of Ireland. Mr. Bassato's insight is much appreciated and extremely helpful.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I have a few points of clarification. The 12,000 passengers are all from flights from the US. Are they all from JFK? Mr. Bassato says positives amounted to 15 of the 12,036, which is 0.12%. Am I correct that the airport authorities look for a negative antigen or PCR test taken 48 hours prior to arrival into Rome airport? On arrival to Rome airport, the passenger is obliged to take a rapid antigen test carried out by the health authorities in Italy. If the rapid antigen test is negative, a passenger is not required to quarantine at home for ten days, for a non-European country, or five days, for a European country. Just to clarify, is there any follow-up rapid antigen testing required by the authorities for people whose test was negative at the airport? I assume there is no hotel quarantine in Italy. Will Mr. Bassato go through the process? Is it all JFK to Rome? What airlines are involved? We know it is 18 flights a week. What tests have to be taken? Can we get a quick walk-through again?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Right now, we have flights from JFK New York, operated by Alitalia, Delta Airlines and American Airlines. Then we have a flight from Newark Liberty International Airport, EWR, operated by United Airlines to Rome-Fiumicino. We have a flight from Hartsfield-Jackson Altanta International Airport, operated by Delta Airlines to Rome-Fiumicino. We have arrivals from two airports in the New York metropolitan area, JFK and EWR, and a flight from Atlanta. Four carriers are involved, namely, Alitalia, Delta Airlines, United and American Airlines.

On follow-up testing and quarantine requirements, after-----

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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A negative test taken 48 hours before prior to departure, either PCR or antigen, is required. Is that correct?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

That is correct. That is checked at boarding by the airline. There is a second test after people disembark. A few steps after the plane doors, there is a testing area with a certain capacity where the health authorities perform a rapid antigen test. Passengers that test negative at this point are not required to quarantine-----

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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At home.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

There is no quarantine, so there is no exit testing at the end of the quarantine. The test at the airport is the last test.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Of the 12,036 passengers that came in from Atlanta and New York, through JFK and Newark, only 15 tested positive. Is that correct? If they test positive, is there a follow-up PCR test?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

The 0.12% or 15 passengers were confirmed cases after the follow-up test.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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If they test positive on a rapid antigen test, is there a follow-up PCR test?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

That is correct. Those who test positive at the antigen test are considered suspect cases, to be confirmed by PCR. There were 29 cases positive at antigen test in Rome that were not confirmed by PCR and there were 15 that were confirmed by PCR.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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There were 44 in total deemed positive, with 29 of those unconfirmed by PCR testing and 15 confirmed.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Exactly. The 15 positive cases were either confirmed by PCR testing or considered confirmed because the rapid test done by the health authorities is quali-quantitative. Above a certain indication of viral load, the case is declared positive.

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. Bassato for his presentation and I will follow up some of the questions asked. Professor Mark Ferguson was before the committee to speak to a review of antigen testing. For an aviation-type setting, and considering what has happened in other places, the proposal was for serial-type testing. It would almost be a case of people doing the test themselves and sending photographs over the ten or 14 days of the quarantine. Public health authorities in this State are pushing back against solutions such as this. Mr. Bassato mentioned a single antigen test. The idea of serial testing was to make up for the fact that antigen is not the gold standard. What do the Italian public health authorities think about this and have they signed off absolutely on this as an operation?

Like ourselves, I imagine the Italian authorities are looking into the DGC. What work has been done at Rome airport and in Italy in general on looking to participate when this is in operation? I assume there are set antigen tests that are used or not used. If positive antigen tests are subsequently found to be negative by PCR test, are those people free to enter and forgo quarantine?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

The airport operator does not have to provide a level of background to the scientific aspect of the protocol. There should be direct interaction between authorities. We recognise that our entity has a set of skills relating to aviation but limited skills in other areas, such as public health.

The second question was about the level of approval we have for the protocol, and as I said, this is a law of Italy and an order of the minister responsible for health confirmed on two different occasions. Originally, the experiment was approved on 15 February-----

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I accept it is law but did any public health authority in Italy give authorisation to this before it became law?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

There was interaction with the scientific advisory committee and appropriate ministries in Italy. At the end of this process, the minister issued an order with similar validity to law in our country with all the steps of the process to be followed by us and airlines. That is all that was initially issued on 23 November 2020, with validity up to 15 February. If I recall correctly, the validity was extended to the end of March initially and then it was extended up to the end of the June. It was considered viable and worthwhile to be continued on two different occasions by the ministry dealing with health. I have forgotten the other questions.

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I asked what work has been done in Italy on the digital green certificate. What happened with the 29 cases where the antigen test was positive but a PCR test was negative? Were the people just released from quarantine?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

With those 29 cases, the results were not immediately available and those people were mandated to isolate in their homes to wait for the PCR result if they were from the local area. If they were foreign or not resident in the local area, there was a hotel close to the airport where quarantine would have been mandated until receipt of the result from the PCR test. That normally comes the day after. The negative cases and the people connected to the person were kept in isolation until the PCR test results were received.

The Deputy asked about the digital green certificate. We are supporting our minister in all possible ways and actively discussing the matter. Although it is not official information, it seems there are plans to implement the first technical trial of a digital certificate before June but the full implementation of the certificate is expected in the second half of the year. We know we are not directly involved in that work but there is technical and information technology work ongoing in preparation for the implementation of the DGC. From the tourism and aviation industries, the expectation is the implementation will take place at the earliest opportunity.

Photo of Cathal CroweCathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I hope members can hear me. I am at the Convention Centre Dublin. I thank Mr. Bassato for attending our committee. I have been listening with interest to everything he has had to say and there are some similarities in some ways in the testing regimes. There is a big difference, however, in how a passenger arriving in Italy is treated. There is no mandatory quarantine and passengers are subject to an antigen test as opposed to our PCR test in the days after they arrive. That paves the way for people to enter the country and spend time there. Essentially, it allows tourism to happen, in theory, over the next few months. It is where we must get to with Ireland. There was a place for mandatory hotel quarantine when we had 8,000 or so cases per day but I am thankful we are well and truly beyond that. The policy must reflect this.

US President Joe Biden signed a proclamation some months ago, proclamation 10143, and people from Italy and Ireland are, unfortunately, not allowed into America unless travel is necessary or the traveller has a current visa or is a US citizen. I presume that presents a challenge for people bound for the US from Italy. Mr. Bassato suggested the only passengers arriving into Italy from the US are those travelling on an essential basis. I imagine there are some significant limitations on the number of people going on those flights, good and all as they are.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Yes. We operate under the limitations adopted by the US that basically forbid foreigners from entering the country. Italians and other non-citizens are not allowed to enter the US, unless they meet specific terms. The model we implemented in Rome is unilateral. It was considered interesting by the US side but the rules for entering the US are different from those we are currently adopting for these specific corridors. We hope there will be a change in US policies but they are not influenced by the EU.

From an economic point of view, these flights are not very sustainable. Other factors increased after the experimentation of the pilot started but they are not up to the point where a flight could be considered sustainable.

Photo of Cathal CroweCathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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There is a plan for European countries, for countries in the Schengen area, which is contingent on all of it being signed off and implemented, hopefully by late June. Will the current trial between Rome Fiumicino and JFK International Airport in New York and other US airports continue? ill it coexist once the DGC is in place? Is it considered to be an interim arrangement?

Mr. Bassato mentioned something that captured my interest above everything, although it is now why he is before the committee. He said the first technical trial of digital green certification and how it will be administered in Italy will happen in a matter of weeks. Ireland will sign up to this. We know the technical specifications at a European end but we have not seen any prototype software or otherwise for how it will be run in Ireland. How far along is Italy in terms of having phone apps, e-certification and digital green certification? How much of this has Mr. Bassato been informed about? Will he elaborate on the trial? That is what I really want to hear. That is the pathway for his country and ours to get out of this awful situation where planes are not flying.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

We are not aware of the details. We know technical work is going on. We are aware of the EU digital green certificate framework because we are part of the technical team at European level, the Airport Council International, our association in Brussels. We are very active with our IT experts in the work being done at that level and the information that the industry has available. It is also available to us, but we are clearly not on the technical team which is doing that for the government and the EU. We are not aware of and have not seen any template or app. We gained a certain experience of the app and the DGC, in our opinion, it is not very different from other concepts that were available in the USA during the second part of 2020 because we were deeply engaged with this app since last year, and, as I said in my opening statement, we tested, for example, on the flight between Rome and New York an app named AOKpass. It was pretty successful. We saw that in nearly 100% of the cases, the passengers did not have any problem in using an app instead of a physical piece of paper.

Photo of Cathal CroweCathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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This is the nub of everything we need to get to. I doubt many people in Rome are watching the committee but for those watching on home soil, this is the nub of where we need to get to: a digital, e-health application that was trialled by Italy, albeit unilaterally. We need to drill deep into this kind of technology, even if it is rudimentary or a few weeks off full development, that is where the committee needs to get. While want to see more antigen testing, that is an interim measure until there is a digital green certificate. Until we know fully how that will work and how planes can get into our sky and people travel in and our of Ireland, that is where we need to get to. This has been a very worthwhile contribution by Mr. Bassato and I thank him.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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We might follow up with Mr. Bassato later and get the name of a contact person to find out how that trial is operating.

Photo of Joe CareyJoe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Bassato. There is growing frustration in Ireland at the continued absence of a reopening plan for aviation and international travel. Airlines, their employees and the economy have taken a devastating blow. I have repeatedly called for a comprehensive plan to be published for international travel as have other members. We are anxious that the Government would fully embrace the DGC and would be ready to take it up when it is finalised. I repeat my call on the Minister for Transport, Deputy Ryan, to come out with a comprehensive plan to restart the aviation industry and international travel. In that context, has the Italian Government prepared a pathway back for international travel? Is it published? Are there timelines?

The issue we are talking about is part of a process for a return to international travel in Italy. Has the state paid for the antigen and PCR tests? Who rolls it out in Italy? Is it the state-led or are the tests done by a private company at airports?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

At this stage, I cannot say that we have a roadmap with all the details. We will not have one for the next two months, when a certain amount of restrictions will be lifted but it is correct that we expect some lifting of restrictions by the beginning of next week.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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What specific restrictions will be lifted?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

I was speaking about international travel. There were public announcements on media that, for example, the quarantine regime for passengers coming from other European countries directly to Italy by air will be removed. Now we have a requirement for five days and a release test after the five days for all travelling within the EU, the Schengen area and the UK.

Photo of Joe CareyJoe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Will that facilitate tourism traffic?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

I think so. By far the highest number of tourists to Rome and Italy come from Europe. The north American market is important but the big numbers of tourists come from within Europe. That will be important, for sure. We have said this as an industry it is important that there will also be co-ordinated action among the different member states on this matter. We hope this will happen. In the next week, there will be this very important change and we also expect a change in the policies on the Covid-tested flights either because the Covid-tested flights are extended to other destinations and the limitations on non-essential travel are removed. We expect the change regarding this regime but there were fewer public statements on that.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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To clarify, the restrictions are being lifted. Will non-essential travel be allowed as well? If tourists are coming in from Europe, will they be able to travel to Italy without any form of quarantine? Is that Mr. Bassato's understanding from next week?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

That is our understanding and we do not have restrictions for non-essential travel within Europe. We never had, because we are part of the Schengen area. Internal borders are not restricted based on essential or non-essential travel. We never had that restriction. We have a quarantine requirement of five days and then a release test after that. We understand from statements by public officials that this will be changed.

Photo of Joe CareyJoe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is very interesting information. As regards the digital green certificate, how far along the road is Italy in terms of embracing that proposal? Will it be in a position to roll it out straight away when it is fully ratified by the EU?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

A DGC for domestic travel in Italy has been provided for in law since 26 April. There were many public statements that Italy would like to adopt the same instrument, if possible even in advance, within the domestic borders. It is in the law. There are, of course, still issues relating to technical feasibility and how people can actually use this tool to travel within Italy but there is no doubt it has been provided for in the law for the past few weeks. It is a clear indication to us that the Italian Government, not only through its statements but also through legislation, is in favour of this instrument being adopted. As to when exactly that will be done, at this moment we do not have a specific date for that.

Photo of Joe CareyJoe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Who picks up the tab for testing at airports, including the supply of the tests and the wages of those who work there? Is it all paid for by the state?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Everything is the responsibility of a public authority. The Istituto Nazionale Malattie Infettive Lazzaro Spallanzani, as I stated, is the most prominent institute. It is a hospital for transmissible diseases. In Rome, we have an agreement with the Istituto Spallanzani and the regional authority that they perform the tests, not for free, but at a charge of €20.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Who pays the €20?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

The passengers pay the €20.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Bassato.

Photo of Michael LowryMichael Lowry (Tipperary, Independent)
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I also thank Mr. Bassato. His contribution has been interesting and very informative. It helps the committee to understand exactly what is achievable. It also underlines the significant progress Italy has made with regard to the DGC, as well as the volume of work that remains to be done in Ireland, a fact that is of concern to us at committee level. The questions I wished to ask have been answered. I am seeking clarification on two points. As I understand it, there are two tests. One of them is the 48-hour pre-flight test. Is that test supervised or is it up to the individual to take the test and give the airport the result? I refer to the test when a passenger disembarks. Who is responsible for that test? Is it the airport authority, the airline or the public health system?

As regards the digital platform, what is the link in that regard? Who are the providers of that protocol? Is it linked in to the public health system in terms of retaining information?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

To answer the Deputy's first question, regarding the test in the US, the legal requirement is that it has to a PCR molecular test or an antigen test. Individuals are responsible for taking the test and presenting the testing certificate to the airline at the boarding gate. It is at their own expense. The certificate has to include proof that the individual has undergone molecular or antigen testing. There must be a clear statement that the test is either a PCR molecular test, one of the kinds of PCR tests that exist or an antigen test. Obviously, the result must be negative to board the plane.

On the second question, regarding the test here in Italy, as I stated, the doctors and nurses are public health officials and the airport is involved in organising the activity. For example, passengers are checked in at the testing area by our staff. In the context of booking only and the pre-registration booking of people who want to test and are travelling outbound from Rome, as well as those who are incoming from the US, we have a registration system which, of course, does not store health-related sensitive information. All information relating to the negative or positive status or health status of the individual is dealt with only by the public health authorities, absolutely not by us or the airline. We organise the security and facilitation of the area, we do the check-in and provide all the information tools but the health-related activities are performed by public health officials.

In answer to the Deputy's last question, in general, we need to be fully compliant with GDPR and we absolutely avoid handling information that we are not authorised to handle.

Photo of Michael LowryMichael Lowry (Tipperary, Independent)
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The test after disembarking is conducted by public officials. Is that an antigen test? In the event of it being positive, does the person then have to take a PCR test?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

It is a rapid antigen test. It also provides a quantitative indication of the viral load, the so-called cut-off index. If the result of the antigen test is positive, it is mandatory to further investigate the case and a second swab is done at the airport. Passengers who return a positive result on the antigen test are mandated to isolate at their homes if they are resident in the area or they are taken to a Covid hotel to await the result of the PCR test done on the second swab the day after. Normally, the result comes within 36 hours, so the real status of the person is known and proper medical decisions are taken accordingly.

Photo of Michael LowryMichael Lowry (Tipperary, Independent)
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Mr. Bassato is saying that the PCR test is also the gold standard test in Italy. He stated that the test takes 36 hours to be returned. The next witnesses to appear before the committee have developed a rapid PCR test. Is Mr. Bassato aware of rapid PCR tests in Italy?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Absolutely. The public health officials in this state are aware of and issue guidelines relating to all kinds of testing methods. There are rapid molecular tests and isothermal molecular tests. For example, a directive issued by the Italian Minister of Health classifies three different generations of antigen tests. There is a wide variety of testing techniques, both in the molecular field and the antigen field.

Photo of Michael LowryMichael Lowry (Tipperary, Independent)
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I thank Mr. Bassato.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I welcome Mr. Bassato. Based on his experience with rapid antigen testing, would he recommend to the committee that we should progressively pursue that policy with the Government?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Honestly, I am humble and do not consider myself to be in a position to recommend a policy to the committee or the Irish Parliament.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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In Mr. Bassato's experience, has he seen a negative outcome from antigen testing?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

The protocol is considered successful in Italy in all the reporting that has been forwarded to the public health and other authorities.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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In the context of Rome's airport, which is now a biosafe airport, how would he describe the passenger experience from the beginning to the end? I ask Mr. Bassato to include the antigen testing in place on-site, in terms of the three locations. The airport used to have three locations.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Several rules were implemented in response to the outbreak of the pandemic. Of course, the most important measure is wearing a mask, which is 100% mandatory, and we check that constantly. The entrance to the terminals is limited only to passengers or operators, for example, to reduce risk. Thermal scanning is in place to look for a specific symptom at the entrance gates. Physical distancing is continually monitored within the terminal. Sanitising protocols are strict and enforced since the very beginning. The efficacy of these protocols is also checked quantitatively.

We now have three areas in the terminal system for antigen testing. One is in what we call landside, for passengers who are leaving Rome and have to be tested. Many countries now have testing requirements in place, so passengers have the opportunity to take an antigen or a molecular test, if they have not done that before reaching the airport. Both services are offered by the public health authorities in relation to the requirement at the destination. Obviously, the result of the molecular testing done at the airport is not given immediately, so passengers have to come the day before.

We have a testing area arriving passengers, especially passengers on the transoceanic corridors. We have a smaller testing area for connecting passengers, because we set up a hub for passengers who did not have the opportunity to test after the first leg and need to be tested during the transit time at the airport. This is mandatory.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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My final question relates to the DGC in operation internally in Italy. How long did it take to prepare from beginning to end?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

The DGC within Italian borders is provided for in law but is not yet at operational status. It has been the law for citizens for a few weeks and the government is implementing the procedures and systems to get that to an operational status. We do not have an exact date for when we will be able to reach this operational status for domestic travel but it is the law.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. Bassato anticipate that will coincide with the roll-out of the European digital green certificate?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Yes. There was a question on this earlier. We expected our Covid-19 testing protocol and the national DGC would somehow be integrated in the harmonised processes, systems and procedures of the EU over the summer.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Bassato for his assistance to us. As he may be gathering from the various contributions, there is a deep frustration in this country, particularly within the aviation sector, at what is perceived as a failure by the Department of Transport to come forward with credible plans to assist in reopening our skies and aviation sector, recognising it plays such an important role in our tourism and hospitality sector, as it does in Mr. Bassato's country, so his intervention is welcome.

We do not see a credible plan coming forward. We have confidence in the European Commission, particularly in the area of the DGC, which I do not doubt will come into play by the end of June. We have no confidence a section of this Government will have a plan in place to correspond to it and to give us a chance to re-establish our vital connectivity links with other parts of Europe and the US.

There seems to be hesitancy and resistance based on concerns around antigen testing. Mr. Bassato referred to 48-hour PCR or antigen testing being done in the Italian trial on the US side. What percentage of those tests were PCR and what percentage were antigen? If Mr. Bassato does not have that, does he have any more data on testing done on the Italian side prior to those departures to the US, if that was a reciprocal arrangement?

We need to convince some people in this country of the reliability of antigen testing in a controlled environment where the tests are carried out by professionals at either end. We also want to try to give confidence around the likelihood, or otherwise, of picking up the virus while in the airport or on aircraft.

The evidence Mr. Bassato has put forward makes it clear the likelihood of transmission of the virus while in the airport and on aircraft is infinitesimal. That is important. It would be more helpful, though, if we knew the percentage of antigen versus PCR testing at the primary point, or on the US side, based on the evidence he has given.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Our public health authorities should be asked for the specific data. The 15 confirmed cases I talked about previously were passengers that tested negative before boarding, obviously, because they had a negative certificate when boarding the plane. There were a variety of situations because there is a follow-up by our health authorities on these cases. On the previous testing certificate, there was a variety of situations. Some tested negative in the US after antigen testing and others tested negative in the US after PCR testing. It might be an explanation that the testing is done at two different times, but I am not-----

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. Bassato have a breakdown of the percentage?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

I am not competent to enter into this kind of discussion.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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Is the arrangement with the US reciprocal? Does Italy do the same or does the US have a requirement that essential passengers travelling from Italy to the US have to have testing done on its end?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Since the beginning of the pilot, passengers leaving Italy for the US have been tested with the same test.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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With an antigen test?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

With an antigen test. Initially, this was not a requirement of the US. However, in January the situation changed when the centre for disease control in the United States mandated that passengers entering the US from another country had to test 72 hours prior with a viral test, which includes a variety of different tests such as antigen. They had to test negative 72 hours before boarding the plane and the tests we are doing in Rome were eligible. The rapid antigen test was okay and there was not a big change because we were doing that anyway.

The Covid-19 tested flight was kind of a promise of safety to passengers, not a barrier to board. We wanted to offer passengers the same level of safety both ways with a Covid-19 tested flight inbound and outbound from Italy. That was the initial reason we did the test in Rome for passengers travelling to the US. It was not a requirement on the US side but became such later on.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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Does Mr. Bassato have data on any follow-up tests that were done on the US side? When the protocol changed in January that required passengers travelling from Italy to the US to take a Covid test prior to departure, was there a corresponding requirement for a validatory check on the US side? If so, can he provide any data in that regard?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

As far as I know, we do not have those data.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Bassato for his assistance to the committee.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I would like clarification on a couple of points. Mr. Bassato mentioned that he expects quarantine will be lifted in a week's time for EU travellers into Italy. What is the current testing requirement for someone flying into Italy from another EU country?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Right now, the requirement is to have a test, either molecular or antigen, 48 hours before departure.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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It is the same requirement as for US passengers.

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Yes, pretty much the same standard is applied to pre-departure testing for all travellers into Italy.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Does that apply only to essential travel at the moment?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Not from within the EU. For travellers from within the EU and Schengen area, Italy is open to everybody. There is free circulation across the internal borders of the EU.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I just want to be clear on the rules. If people from Ireland want to go on holiday to Italy, they will require a negative PCR or antigen test, taken 48 hours before they arrive in Italy, and they will be required to self-quarantine for five days after they get there. Are they required to take an antigen test when they arrive in Italy?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

They are not required to take an antigen test exactly when they arrive. They have to isolate and they are required to take a test after five days.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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That is very different from our system. Italy is, in effect, open for tourists. Moreover, as I understand it, in a week's time, travellers to Italy from the EU or Schengen countries will still require a negative PCR or antigen test taken 48 hours prior to arrival but they will no longer be required to take an antigen test once they are there. Is that the case?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

The current expectation is that they will be required to have a negative test, taken 48 hours in advance of their leaving, and they will not be tested in Italy.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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They will not be tested at all?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

That is right.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I have one more question. Mr. Bassato said that 15 out of 12,000 passengers arriving into Italy from the US tested positive on arrival on a PCR test. Does he know the percentage breakdown between those who took a PCR test and those who took an antigen test prior to departure? He said that both types of tests were taken but was the breakdown 50:50, say, or 40:60?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

I do not know the breakdown from memory. If the committee thinks that information would be useful, perhaps we could do a follow-up on it.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Am I correct that passengers coming from the US could have taken either type of test?

Mr. Ivan Bassato:

Yes, I remember there were both types of tests.

Photo of Kieran O'DonnellKieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Bassato and Mr. Berlenghi for attending the meeting. Their engagement with us has been very informative. There is significant frustration for the committee in regard to the process around the introduction of the digital green certificate, the use of antigen testing and the urgency of that situation. We are looking at 26 June as the date when the certificate will come into operation in Europe. Mr. Bassato has outlined to us today how a fellow European country is operating transatlantic flights safely through the use of antigen testing, with only 0.12% of 12,000 passengers testing positive. He has told us that Italy is accepting non-essential travellers, who have to isolate for five days and then take an antigen or PCR test. Moreover, in a week's time, Italy will be fully open for tourists from EU and Schengen countries, who, so long as they have a negative PCR or antigen test 48 hours prior to their arrival, will not be required to take a test during their stay.

Our situation is that we are still applying a hotel quarantine regime, even though our Covid infection numbers are declining. We need to move on from that. We have already asked the Government to look at setting up a pilot antigen testing system for air travel. The regime that is put in place for antigen testing must reflect the fact we are seeing a major improvement in the reduction in Covid cases. That needs to be reflected in the system we have in place for tourists and businesspeople coming into and out of Ireland. It is also vital that the DGC regime is rolled out on 26 June and not any later.

I thank the witnesses again for attending the meeting. We will continue our engagement with them and we wish them well. We will suspend briefly to prepare for the next witnesses.

Sitting suspended at 1.57 p.m. and resumed at 2.01 p.m.