Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and his official to the House.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Thank you very much, Acting Chair. I very much appreciate this chance to share some of the latest thinking and developments in the development of the offshore wind industry, which is going to be of significant economic, environmental and social consequences for the people of our country. We were one of the first countries out of the traps on this. The offshore wind power project off Arklow and Brittas Bay beach, which people will know, was one of the first in Europe, if not the world, so we have seen how it can be done. In the intervening period we fell behind in the development of offshore for what was a rational reason in some ways, in the sense that we had an onshore opportunity, which was more cost-competitive and through which we have successfully delivered our renewables target. However, it is now past time - many would argue it is long past time - for us to go offshore and take the benefit of the comparative competitive advantage that we have in wind resources. We happen to live in one of the windiest places on the planet. I recall a former Senator, Brendan Halligan, saying many times that in the same way as we converted our comparative competitive advantage in grass growing into a food industry, in Kerrygold and so on, we should convert our comparative competitive advantage in offshore wind into an exporting industry as well as meeting our domestic needs. That is what we are going to do.

There is a transformation under way in the world in respect of renewables. It is now at such a scale, not only in wind but also, in particular, in solar power that this year the head of the International Energy Agency, IEA, estimates that 90% of all investment globally in electricity generation will be in renewables. It is a quicker, cheaper and better system, in particular in a country like Ireland where we have real skills in the project management companies that deliver the renewables power, in the balancing capability in EirGrid and in the ESB, as well as having one of the best resources. It makes absolute sense for us to develop it.

In fact, we are in something of a race because all our neighbours, and other parts of the world, are looking for the same industry. The UK is probably the first, ahead of all the others in the volume of power it has developed in very similar waters to us. The Germans, Dutch, Danes, Belgians, Norwegians, Swedes, French and Spanish - everyone in our area - are looking to attract this investment. The same is happening in the US, China, Japan and every major economy. For this reason, we must be quick because there are limited resources in turbine manufacturing, shipping, cable manufacturing and all the other logistics and in the foundations. There is a limited industrial capability, and we must be quick to make sure as much investment as possible comes to Ireland and is part of a long-term pathway for two or three decades whereby we will scale it up and deliver probably the biggest investment project in the history of the State. We can and will do this and we will be good at it. We will do it in co-operation with our European colleagues.

I was very proud, as the president of the North Seas Energy Cooperation agreement, to get the UK to sign into the agreement again in December last. This must work in collaboration with our neighbours. The process of being part of a regional electricity market is where we are going. There is a project to connect Ireland to France. There is a new interconnector with the UK and further interconnectors which will come are as important in many ways as the turbines and the development of the power supply itself.

I am conscious that time is tight so I will not be able to go into all the details but if we look at other countries in terms of what is mission critical for delivering this, planning is the issue. First, we must get this right so that we protect the environment at the same time as we address climate change. We know we have the two crises of biodiversity loss and climate to address at the same time. We must ensure the solutions to one do not impede the other. Probably the biggest challenge is getting certainty, derisking the planning aspect and winning the confidence of our local communities. That is what we need to get right more than anything else. There have been very significant developments in the past year to help the State do that. I refer to the passing of the maritime area planning legislation and the establishment of the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, MARA, to which a chair has been appointed and to which a chief executive will be appointed within weeks. It will have a critical role in consent and in helping with the planning.

Senators and others will know that we have gone with a three-phase approach. In the first phase, where we are dealing with a relevant project that has already been in the planning system, in many cases for up to ten or 15 years, we will progress it. There is one on the west coast, Sceirde Rocks off Connemara, and six in the Irish Sea. We are in the middle of that process. The auction system process is up and running. In April, we are due to conclude that and then the projects will have to go into the planning system. An Bord Pleanála as well as MARA have a critical role. An Bord Pleanála must scale up its capability to work with these companies now. It must start engaging with them so that they are able to go into the planning subject to get it through the auction process and get into the planning approval process. We must do that in a timeline where we are delivering those projects at sea and going into construction in the early years of the second half of this decade. They will not all get through. There is almost 5 GW of potential power in those seven projects, but we expect a significant percentage will do so. That will build up our capability and meet our immediate power needs, in particular on the east coast, especially Dublin, where we have a very large demand for power output.

We are also due to go to the Government shortly to set out the approach for the second phase. That is where we will start to switch away towards a State-led planning approach, still involving the private sector and developers, but very much where a lot of the planning risk and environmental analysis and assessment will help those projects be delivered.

If planning is the number one key issue, the grid is number two in terms of the design of the development of these offshore resources so that it optimises both our domestic grid and our needs but also optimises, as we go to the enduring regime, how we export and use the power in an effective way.Phase 2 will likely comprise two different phases, the first of which will be a continuation of the fixed-bottom system, and the second of which to be delivered will be the floating offshore capability. That will be designed around some of the environmental assessments, including special protection areas, special areas of conservation and marine protected areas, so that we get the environmental planning right at the same time as we avail of the development opportunity. That will be key. Community consultation is critical. There will also be significant community gain as we develop resources. The estimate is that a 500 MW facility might bring €4 million per annum into the local community. We will design it so that the local community has a real role and the community benefit evolves.

Phase 3 involves moving to really large-scale capability. The figure mentioned was something like 30 GW but, in truth, if we get the scale of the resource right, it is a multiple of that, with some of the assessments of the scale of the resource in our waters going up to 70 GW. I have frequently met other European energy ministers at the European Council who make the simple point that they have a deficit in renewable power and we have a surplus, and ask if we can talk. Senator Dooley met the German hydrogen ambassador in Shannon. German officials are coming to us to see what our plans are with regard to that enduring, large-scale regime. It is very much about floating capacity in this case. The waters to the west and the north west are where the real scale resource exists.

Anyone who knows the west coast knows that one can go west and be in 100 m of water before too long. Senator Garvey knows this better than anyone. That requires floating offshore generation. That is the real prize. It involves developing something which protects our environment and delivers that scale of power. It is the energy of the future. We have an abundance of it. It gives us economic security, sees us developing a role in climate change, and allows us to develop new industries which can use that power.

I am looking forward to the report from the Shannon area economic task force because it is not just a matter of deploying the turbines, manufacturing them and using sites like Moneypoint, Tarbert and Shannon Foynes; it is also about providing energy for Aughinish Alumina, Shannon Airport, Irish Cement and new industries that will locate where this clean power supply is. For the west and north west in particular, as well as for the south and, initially, Dublin, with the east coast power coming in, the prize is clean power that gives us a secure economic and environmental future. I look forward to hearing what Senators have to say on the matter.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is exactly on time. I appreciate that.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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Tá sé go deas an tAire a fheiceáil ag caint faoi rudaí tábhachtacha agus dóchasacha ó thaobh fuinnimh de. I thank the Minister for coming in today. When people talk about clean green energy, it always gives me hope. For too long, we have been addicted to fossil fuels. To see the scope of the vision the Minister has about energy and how we can become net exporters of green energy has excited me for many years. One reason I joined the Green Party was the vision we have had for over 30 years of how we can move away from fossil fuels, keep all we can in the ground, and move to green energy. It gives me hope to hear the Minister talk about the important part that west Clare will have to play thanks to our deep waters.

In 2020, 42% of our energy came from wind power, which is pretty good going for a European country. We need to double that in the next seven to eight years. We at least have a plan on paper and now we have to implement it. Not only do we have to look at electricity uses under the climate action plan, but we must also appreciate that electricity will affect transport, food and many other sectors. Our energy system will affect every single climate target we have to reach. We hope to have a renewable electricity share of 50% by 2025, so it has to increase by 8% in the next two years. Solar energy generation is to expand to 5 GW in the next two years. Offshore wind is to increase to at least 5 GW by 2030. We also have to look at our demand-side flexibility, which is a huge part of this, with the challenges of storing wind energy and flexibility with regard to its use.

The community benefit is key for a grassroots party. The energy and benefit from offshore wind has to be beneficial to the people at the grassroots. I speak for the people of west Clare in that way. Moneypoint was always a stronghold for employment in the area. We recently got great funding for a new marine development building in Kilrush, which is fantastic. This will be a game-changer for the towns of Kilrush and Kilkee and the villages in that area. That will only happen if we get the skills and training that are needed by the people who live in that area. We have the Science Foundation Ireland Research Centre for Energy, Climate and Marine, MaREI, institute in Galway and Cork. I have contacted the Limerick and Clare Education and Training Board, Limerick Institute of Technology, and Seamus Hoyne, who has expertise in this area. We need to make sure that the people of Clare can access various courses without having to travel far, whether they are upskilling courses or year-long modules.

I will mention some of the skills that will be needed. I am doing this to give a taste of the scope of the employment opportunities that will be presented to the people of Clare and elsewhere. People will be doing planning and environmental impact assessments. Project managers, civil, mechanical and electrical engineers, ecologists, scientists and marine biologists will be needed. People will be employed in construction, maintenance and repair; and as health and safety officers, crane drivers, electrical and electronic technicians, energy plant operators and accountants. People will be working in transport and logistics services and in management, Marine officers, such as ship crew and remote operators of vehicles, will also be needed. There is significant potential. It is important to me for so many reasons, and not just because I am from County Clare. It makes sense for the jobs to be given to people who live in the county where the offshore development is going to happen. To do that, it is important that the Shannon Estuary task force puts pressure on this matter and gives financial and other supports, as well as guidance, to Limerick Institute of Technology, now called the Technological University of the Shannon, and to training boards. We need to make sure we work with them. I will do all I can to engage with them. I will look for supports from the Government. I know the supports exist but they need to be linked in.

Nobody in County Clare is taking on the responsibility of ensuring the training and jobs are coming to the county and will be given to the people of Clare, particularly in west Clare. The local enterprise offices exist but focus on small businesses which look at exporting. The director of economics on Clare County Council has more to do with the economics of the council itself. There is a void with regard to who will ensure the jobs are in Clare. To that end, I started meeting Dr. Simon Berrow, who is from the Irish Whale and Dolphin Group, because he is the expert. Thanks be to God that we have him. He has over 30 years of experience with the needed skills. We have great news, thanks to the Minister of State, Deputy Malcolm Noonan, and Deputy Steven Matthews, with regard to marine planning areas. We have quadrupled the protected areas in the last two years in government, which is amazing. We have further work to do, and it must all happen before we know where the best place to put our offshore wind facilities is, whether they are floating or otherwise. The Green Party in government has much to do. We have to get marine planning right to make sure we put our wind turbines in the right places. To that end, we need environmentalists and ecologists as well as technicians, mechanics and engineers. It is great. We are lucky to have people like the Irish Whale and Dolphin Group and Dr. Berrow who have the information, research, knowledge and expertise that we need to progress all things along the estuary.

The Shannon Estuary task force is looking at essential building blocks to unlock the potential of the entire estuary. We hope the local economy will be powered by renewable energy, first and foremost. The task force is looking at upskilling the workforce and attracting new talent, which is important, as I mentioned already. It builds on the region's innovative tradition. We have many good traditions. The west is awake. We have always led the way. It is why County Clare is called the Banner County since the banner is at the front. We have always been innovative. We are ready to do this for Clare and west Clare. We have to lead and embrace new ways of working. There have been significant debates about data centres, how evil they are and how it is all their fault. It has been simplistic, low-brow and unintelligent debate. Being realistic, if we are to have a data centre, let us put it where the offshore wind energy will be available. That will be the best place for it in some ways. It can also help with storing the energy and electricity.There is no point in all of us being on our phones morning, noon and night even in the Seanad Chamber while people are speaking and then giving out about data centres being evil, as my colleague Senator Boylan is doing at the moment. I know she has been objecting to data centres left, right and centre, yet she is on her smartphone while I am speaking.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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Some of us are capable of multitasking.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, can we just-----

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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On a point of order-----

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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It is ironic that she talks about data centres being really bad-----

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Just stick to the topic, please.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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It is vital----

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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On a point of order-----

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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We need our smartphones and it is thanks to data centres that we have them. I am suggesting that data centres geographically-----

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I will allow Senator Boylan make her point of order briefly.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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Seriously, we are trying to carry out our business here. Some of us need to multitask whether Senator Garvey likes it or not.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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I have no problem with her being on her phone.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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The Senator is calling me out for using my phone when I am answering a very important message-----

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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No, I am not.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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-----of a personal nature.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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May I ask you-----

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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The Senator is completely misinterpreting what I am saying.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I am not missing the point. I am just saying she should just grow up and have a mature debate.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Ladies, please-----

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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That is what I am looking for. It would be great.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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Then the Senator should try practising it.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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The Senator is giving out about data centres.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, the Chair is here now.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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Every time the Senator comes in here, she causes a row.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Boylan, please.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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I never row.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Boylan, I beg you.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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It is absolutely true. We get petty rows every time Senator Garvey comes in.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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Can we just move on?

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I am chairing. It really is a pity-----

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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It really is.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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-----that this has developed here. We are having a very important discussion. I ask the two ladies to stick with the issues.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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No problem.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Garvey should proceed and Senator Boylan will have her time.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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The point I was making is-----

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Do not make the point again now, just continue with your speech. You were doing fantastic.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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I will not mention her on her phone all day while I am speaking; that is grand.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Do not make the point. I will chair the meeting.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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There has been considerable debate on data centres. The point I was making is it is really good to have data centres located where we have a high source of energy such as offshore wind energy.

The wind last year saved Ireland's electricity system a gas bill of €2 billion. That is instantly replacing gas with wind, which is a positive. We need to be optimistic and give people hope. It is easy to be negative. Every unit of wind energy on our system brings down the price of electricity for homes and businesses. We have a commitment, as a party and as a Government, that we want to have 30% of all our energy to be community owned which is also important. There are many positives happening here. We will struggle because of planning issues and we need to expedite things as much as possible. We need to get marine protected areas right first, but this is positive. I thank the Minister for giving his time to come to the House.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator McDowell - ocht nóiméad. We are back to peace and tranquillity.

Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister. I wish to say a few words about this important topic. We need to acknowledge a number of things. As he said, in 2004, I believe we had the first significant wind farm in Europe built off the coast of Arklow. That was Ireland moving ahead. However, Ireland is now behind the curve. As he also said, we are in a race, but we are behind in the race and we need to acknowledge that. Scotland, for instance, has greatly outpaced us. I believe it has 4,000 people employed in the offshore wind energy business. It has taken major steps using its infrastructure to establish onshore marine facilities to service those facilities.

We cannot in the slightest bit be complacent, nor does it suffice to simply throw out statements about what a golden opportunity we have. Everyone accepts that Ireland has a golden opportunity. Everyone accepts that Ireland has an enormous resource in wind energy if we can put together the means to harvest it, integrate it into our economy and become an exporter of electricity and possibly hydrogen generated from it. All of those are good aspirations and I fully support them.

In his contribution, the Minister mentioned that MARA is still tooling up in respect of personnel appointments. The first round of auctions is due to take place in April this year. When flying to London, the plane begins to descend over Liverpool. We are now more than halfway through the life of this Government. We do not yet have an operational regulatory agency for offshore wind power generation and we have not conducted the relevant auctions. We are behind the curve in respect of all this.

The Minister has laid emphasis, as doubtless he would, on the importance of combining the regulation of this matter from the point of view of MARA on the one hand with the pre-construction and operational matters that will fall to An Bord Pleanála. In that context, he mentioned the need to upskill An Bord Pleanála. I am beginning to think An Bord Pleanála is doing far too much. On the one hand, it is measuring the height of tower blocks in Dublin and, on the other, it is supposed to be working on the marine and ecological aspects of offshore floating or non-floating infrastructure. For a single agency to be able to take that on is doubtful. I do not want to propose reinventing the wheel but I wonder whether we should not have an accelerated programme with a specialist agency to look at these matters and thus simply have experts around the table deal with it quickly and get on with it in a way that dovetails neatly with the regulatory arrangements because of issues we have with energy at the moment - I will not call it a crisis. I note what is happening in the UK, which is appealing to people to turn off electrical appliances and rewarding them. We are not out of the woods yet in respect of these matters.

Most important, we have considerable work to do in building in Ireland sufficient port facilities to support an offshore wind generation capacity of the scale of which the Minister is speaking, the 8 GW or whatever. If that is to happen, either it will be serviced from the west coast of Britain, the Netherlands or Belfast, which is ahead of us in this regard, or it will be the basis of our native industrial capacity here. I hear general talk about setting up various groups to study this, that and the other about ports. The time for a study is passed; it should have taken place 18 months ago. The time for action is now if we are to catch up in this race. I accept the Minister's analogy of being in a race. It is a race against many things environmentally and planet-wise. I accept we are in that race.

There is a sense of inertia that the only body that can decide planning matters in Ireland is An Bord Pleanála. It has not done a very good job of it. It has not been fit for purpose in many of the things it does. I do not believe it is appropriate to trust to it this area and to propose giving it additional expert human resources to enable it to do very complex and totally different tasks. As I said, working out whether apartment blocks should be south facing or north facing in Dublin is very different from the obligation to try to work out what can and cannot be done in areas of marine conservation by anchoring offshore floating facilities and or having fixed floating facilities and the ecological consequences of doing those things for fisheries, species diversity and the like.

We need a renewed sense of urgency about all this. We cannot relax about it. I will say more about Derrybrien when I introduce legislation in this House to deal with that issue. However, we cannot relax on the whole question of how quickly and how effectively we achieve the targets that the Minister spoke about with such inspiring rhetoric. We need to galvanise the machine to deliver. I do not accept that An Bord Pleanála is in a fit condition to do this. I regret that MARA is now only tooling up in respect of key appointments to be in a position to carry out its very necessary function. I do not accept we are doing a good job in developing our port facilities to support the kind of scale of industry the Minister is speaking about.It is easy to speak about all of those things but it is difficult to achieve those steps that would give rise to great economic benefit for this country. I do not want to be negative. I share the Minister's ambition but I query whether we are deluding ourselves by talking about realising those ambitions rather than taking concrete steps to achieve them.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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Like others, I welcome the Minister and recognise the vision he has had in this area for many years. That vision and the policies he has developed are now starting to lead Government in a particular way. We have been very good at that aspect of things. While this is not a criticism of the Minister but of the wider apparatus of government, there has been a significant deficit in planning and delivery. I share a lot of the views Senator McDowell expressed. He will know from his time in government just how difficult that is. When we were dealing with MARA, I raised some issues. I believed the ambition as regards when appointments would be made and when the authority would get into action was not sufficient to be effective with regard to the race we are in. The Minister has rightly identified how far behind our competition we are. I recall the former Senator, Brendan Halligan, talking about what was happening with Dr. Eddie O'Connor a number of years ago and identifying, even at that stage, the opportunity available to Ireland. They identified our competitors in the Netherlands and Scotland and noted what Statoil and others were doing. Sadly, the Department resolved to shuffle on, taking things phase by phase and step by step. The Minister was not there so it was not his fault. While such an approach is logical at times, sometimes when an opportunity presents itself, you have to grasp it. It is still not beyond us.

The ambition the Minister has brought to the table from his initial appointment changed the thinking of the ESB overnight. I had numerous meetings with the ESB over recent years about what was going to happen in Moneypoint, recognising that a Government decision had been taken to close the plant there in 2025. There were lots of eyes rolled and hands folded and twisted about. I was told it could perhaps be converted to gas or biomass but the ESB had no plan. When there was a Green Minister in the Department, the ESB all of a sudden rolled out from nowhere a prepared plan. Fair play to it. It has some of the most fantastic engineers and some really bright people. However, when it realised that the policy imperative and focus had changed, we were all of a sudden talking about an offshore wind farm. The commercial sector was already talking about it. We are also going to have hydrogen production. All of this had been processed but the ESB was not leading on it.

I will comment on floating turbines rather than fixed or onshore turbines because those are already in play. The Minister has identified the importance of such technology for us in decarbonising our energy sector. That is a given. Great economic potential is associated with it, along with great capacity to address an issue that is often discussed in these Houses: balanced regional economic development. That has always bedevilled us because, quite frankly, we did not have an opportunity. We did not have gold or silver in sufficient quantities to make a go of it. We did not have oil or gas in any great quantities. We have wind in abundance. The real opportunity is there. I do not know how to action that or how to take the Minister's kind of ambition, vision and policies and create the emergency impetus that allows stuff to be set aside.

I too have real concerns about the capacity of An Bord Pleanála. I do not want to go back over what has been discussed but it is just not tooled up to deal with what it is doing. We all hear about the delays and know about the issues in our constituencies with housing developments that are not progressing. I will not say An Bord Pleanála is procrastinating. I assume it is a capacity issue.

Recognising that 85% of Ireland's continental shelf is at a depth of greater than 100 m, floating offshore will be the main technology through which the targets the Minister has talked about will be met. It goes back to what Dr. Eddie O'Connor and Brendan Halligan have been talking about for a long time: the capacity to export much of that energy to the European market. The Minister will know about the work of Commissioner Kadri Simson and the EU's efforts to drive policies to assist us in that regard.

To go back to the point Senator McDowell made, we need an industrialised strategy to co-ordinate our approach. If we just leave it to the market on its own, it will be a question of who is first up and best dressed, perhaps moving others aside, causing us to lose out. If we do not have an industrialised strategy, that will be an operator from Scotland or elsewhere in the UK. We are used to recognising that most of our fish stocks are fished by Spanish trawlers and, therefore, the notion of our resources being taken or exploited by jurisdictions other than our own is nothing new. If we do not get that right, we will have a problem.

Our ports policy also needs a significant boost. I know of the work that is under way with the task force and Shannon Foynes Port but we are going to have to put our money where our policy is in that regard. We also need to sort out the licensing system inside and outside the 12 nautical miles if we are to get it right in phase 2. If the projects are not delivered by the MARA in 2023, other foreign direct investment may follow the same route as Shell and Equinor. There is a gap there.

I jotted down a couple of quick questions on the way here. To ensure there will be no regional difference in offshore wind in phase 2, we need to put on record that floating offshore wind along the western seaboard will form part of that phase. That kind of signal is needed at this early stage to get that kind of investment in place. Floating offshore wind must be enabled to contribute towards our 2030 targets, which are important from a decarbonisation point of view. When does the Minister hope to publish that phase 2 policy statement? How are the MARA, the National Parks and Wildlife Service and An Bord Pleanála to be suitably resourced? This goes back to the point I was making earlier. If they do not have the capacity, is there a strategy in place now rather than only tooling them up when we want them to act? Is there some kind of process in place to tool them up in advance? Will Ireland's foreshore licensing process be fit for purpose to enable the offshore wind industry to deliver on our climate action targets? From a local perspective, will our offshore grid connectivity be enabled in accordance with the recommendations of that Shannon economic task force? That is important if we are to meet that target.

I thank the Minister for everything he has done and wish him well. I particularly ask him to try to ensure we have the kind of buy-in and cross-departmental support needed to harness this successively from both the climate change perspective and the perspective of economic potential. We need that from other arms of government, including the Departments of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Environment, Climate and Communications from a planning perspective, and from our industrialised policy.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate all Members and the Minister sticking to the time because, as the Minister said earlier, our time is tight.

John McGahon (Fine Gael)
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May I share time with Senator Kyne? We will take four minutes each.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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Is the House agreeable? Yes.

John McGahon (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach. To follow on from the points raised by Senator Dooley, we have ambitious targets, which is great, and I have no doubt that we will get very close to achieving them but we have to make sure that infrastructural Ireland - for want of a better term - the Civil Service or whatever you want to call it does not bog down those ambitious targets and slow that process down whether through the planning process with An Bord Pleanála, through general officialdom or through various different Departments. We have to be sure that everyone is working from the same playbook and is on the same page and that we are all moving in the same direction. We have ambitious targets because wind is one of the greatest natural resources we, as a country, have. I have no doubt that, within the next decade, Ireland will become a renewable powerhouse of Europe and will be able to export and sell excess wind energy to other European countries that do not have any. That is where we are going to go with it. In my part of the world, we are in the process of building the Setanta Wind Park. It is located just off the coast at Clogherhead, County Louth and will have the ability to generate up to 1 GW of energy a year.Some 1 million homes a year will be powered by this wind farm off the coast of County Louth. It will also have a carbon offset of 1 billion kg per annum. That is just a small example of what one wind farm can do.

Yesterday morning in Dundalk, I had a meeting with a couple of people about hydrogen and wind energy. I saw a map of Ireland indicating all the planned offshore wind projects that will be in place from the west coast right around the country. It is quite incredible and impressive. I have a couple of questions following on from that. The Minister mentioned everything we have to do to ensure we are attracting investment into Ireland to help with our wind energy sector. He might outline exactly what more is being done to make sure that investment is coming here. As he said, we are in direct competition with a number of other countries. What is being used as a unique selling point to get that investment into Ireland rather than other countries?

I have another question relating to An Bord Pleanála. The Minister stated that it will be scaled up. How will that be done? How exactly will it be ensured that these issues do not get bogged down in a planning process? Is it a case of extra staff and resources? What is the game plan with that to make sure it does not get bogged down? I will hand over to my colleague, Senator Kyne. I would appreciate a follow-up to my questions.

This is something to be very excited about. Wind is a natural resource that we have as the only country on the western edge of the European Continent. It is something to be very excited about. By the end of all this, what we have introduced here will be the envy of many European countries.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator for his brevity.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister. In May 2020, his predecessor, Deputy Richard Bruton, announced seven offshore renewable energy projects that were designated as relevant projects. Before Christmas those projects received and were granted Ireland's first maritime area consents, MACs, from the Department, which is welcome. The Sceirde Rocks project off the coast of Connemara was included. I certainly hope that the recently announced redevelopment and upgrade of Rossaveal Harbour will assist in ensuring that project comes to fruition and will be the catalyst for jobs and renewal of that area.

The MAC allows for projects to engage with An Bord Pleanála on preplanning. That is important, as is An Bord Pleanála being fit for purpose in dealing with this and with maritime area consents. One would have to assume that these projects will not be delivered quickly. Maybe I am wrong; the Minister can correct me. However, such projects need to be expedited and pushed along. My concern is that anything that is done regarding offshore is subject to so much environmental work, and so many appeals, that the timelines on delivery of projects like this are affected, even though it is a very important next step that MACs can involve engagement on preplanning with An Bord Pleanála. Senator McDowell referenced Derrybrien. I look forward to his proposed legislation and seeing what the Government's reaction will be to that. Looking at it from the outside, it can be said that a project that is in place and can generate electricity that has not been utilised, or allowed to be utilised, raises questions. There are legal issues as well. I look forward to that debate when it happens.

The future of energy is offshore. Perhaps the Minister will give a view on where we are with onshore. Are we now less likely to see onshore projects or does onshore still have a future? County Galway has been mapped and many parts of it are unsuitable for onshore works. The region in which I live, Connemara, has Ireland's largest wind park. It has also been utilised for amenities, trails and the like. It is a significant boost to the area, as it was during construction. That is not to say there were not issues. Once these projects are built they are fine but, during the construction phase, when the existing road network has to be used and, in certain cases, the area may be heavily populated, there can be and have been conflicts. It is also worth noting, in the context of the planning process, that the heavy machinery, dust and all that goes with it causes upset to a number of people, notwithstanding the important role such projects play.

According to the Wind Energy Ireland report, wind farms provided 34% of our electricity last year, which was up four points from 2021. That is progress. It is to be hoped that this year and in the coming years that will increase further. Of course, that is not to say there are not days when the wind does not blow but, in general, we have seen progression on this. That is important in having the right energy mix, the sustainable use of electricity, the reduction of carbon emissions, and in the cost of purchase of fossil fuels where there are alternatives, as there are in this case.

Offshore is a very important part of our energy sector. There is significant potential in our offshore energy. I hope our offshore projects can be expedited through the processes and various stages without, obviously, cutting any corners or undermining people's confidence in the planning system. Nonetheless, these projects should be expedited and should get up and going. The community gains that are so intrinsic to these projects should be provided through supports, which we have seen in the onshore sector and can be replicated offshore.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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We are very tight on time. We have to finish by 2.15 p.m. and give the Minister an opportunity to reply. I ask everybody for their full co-operation. Senator Boylan has eight minutes.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I will not take the full eight minutes.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator for that.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I know many people want to get in on this. It is one of those debates where we are all in agreement on the need for greater ambition in our wind energy and renewables. We all see, particularly with the Ukraine war, how important renewable energy is, in addition to the idea of energy independence. Ireland has significant potential to realise full energy independence. It is welcome that everybody who has contributed to the debate has not used it as an excuse, which we have seen in the past, to lobby for LNG terminals or other nonsensical arguments. We have the potential for 100% renewables in this country. To achieve that energy independence and energy security should be the focus of everybody, regardless of whether they are in the Government or the Opposition.

In our 2018 Powering Ireland 2030 policy document, Sinn Féin set out a very ambitious and pragmatic plan that would have seen the proportion of 80% of electricity demand being provided by renewables by 2030. We have always recognised the potential we have. We welcome the ambition of this Government to achieve 80% of electricity from renewables by 2030. However, that target was only accepted by the Government in 2021. I do not lay any of the blame for that at the Minister's feet. We have lost a decade in this country to deliver on our energy targets due to lack of ambition. That delayed ambition has already put meeting this current target in jeopardy.

We also have to acknowledge that we have the most expensive renewable energy in the European Union. There are a number of reasons for that. It is not to do with the Ukraine war, although that is certainly playing into costs and supply chains. We have always consistently had the most expensive renewable energy. For a long time, Sinn Féin has called for a high-level stakeholder, cross-departmental forum to identify where the points are, why we are outliers in renewable energy costs compared with our European counterparts, and how we can address them through policy gaps. This does not all fall into the energy portfolio. People have talked about planning, ports and a number of different issues regarding why we have higher costs. That needs to be addressed because we all want renewable energy and to be able to deliver lower-cost energy bills for households in order that they can see the direct benefit from investing in such energy.

One example of the cost of the delay relates to offshore wind farms. A matter I have a lot of concern about, and on which I would like to hear reassurances from the Minister, is that the number of offshore wind turbines is outpacing the supply of the specialised vessels capable of deploying these wind turbines.In 2020, there were only 20 such boats. Demand for these ships is outpacing supply, meaning the ships are booked up years in advance. I ask for reassurances that we have booked that capacity and those vessels so that if a company has all the other components in place to deliver an offshore wind farm later this decade, accessing those specialised vessels is not going to delay or impede that wind farm being delivered.

I also have concerns about the ports and what the Government is doing there. We have lost out on EU funding to build up our port capacity. My understanding is that Belfast Port is the only port currently capable of bringing in these huge wind turbines. What is the Government doing to try to rectify that? Is it trying to source alternative income? It is going to use State revenues or will it reapply to the EU for that essential funding?

The other issue with the funding of renewables overall is the PSO levy. We believe that needs to be reformed. It is not fair at the moment. While everybody is thankful that the PSO levy on renewables has come down and they are paying back into the system so people are seeing a benefit in their bill, that might change. It can change. We have seen a complete flip in the cost of renewables so why is it a flat rate? It is regressive and households are paying a disproportionate amount because of the way it is designed around peak demand and not steady demand. We are subsidising those large energy users, including data centres. We are also subsiding data centres with the large energy use subsidy that has gone on for a decade, which the CRU is thankfully unwinding. It has to be a fair system. If we are funding renewables it should not be households that are doing the heavy lifting on that.

Lots of people have talked about planning. I do not need to over-egg it since other people have pointed to it but we have an issue with planning here and the answer is not to make it harder for people to object to wind farms. We need to be resourcing the planning system. I am reassured by what the Minister said about upskilling. We need those people. We need them particularly in the marine environment so we can balance the realisation of the potential of wind energy with our marine biodiversity and those habitats that are of crucial importance. Sinn Féin's alternative budget provided extra resources, not only for the planning system but also for those environmental NGOs that have to make submissions on planning applications, so they have the skills and resources to do that. To prevent cases going through judicial review, we need to fix the planning process.

When will the wind energy development guidelines be published? They are long overdue. This is a concern for local communities and we need to see those guidelines. I have said this to the Minister a number of times when he has been in the Chamber. Yes, our potential has to be realised but also it is about putting wind turbines in the right place. We have seen what happened when that was not done in Derrybrien and the huge impact that can have on communities. That is equally the case with the mid-Shannon wilderness park. The community there was promised a wilderness park and now they are being told it is going to be a wind farm. I do not think that is fair in terms of the just transition but it also does not make sense to put wind turbines on pumped peatlands. They could be used for solar and that wilderness park and the community could then have the resources they were promised as part of the just transition.

Annie Hoey (Labour)
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Forgive me; I have to dash out as soon as I wrap up this contribution. We have a strong polluting element in Ireland. We have a duty to change our ways and mitigate the disastrous and existential effects of the climate emergency. We are here to focus on wind energy, as the Minister outlined, and there are three ways we can do this: committing to the "polluter pays" principle; co-opting wind energy into State ownership; and ensuring a just transition for the workers affected.

The "polluter pays" principle would require net polluters to contribute towards damages for the countries most harmed by their actions. This would hold Ireland accountable and force the Government's hand into investing in the likes of wind energy to avoid further deterioration in the environment. Investment in wind energy is what we are here to talk about but there is a sense that a huge amount of it is being done by the private sector. A previous speaker referred to the ESB and the work it is doing in that area but people are talking about wind farms popping up in their areas and they are being built by the private sector. It is important that we ensure, with a public good such as energy supply, that as much of our energy that is supplied or provided by wind be taken into ownership by the State. As has been mentioned, the ESB is doing something on that. Whether it is fully within the ESB or a different State body - I am not too precious about that - we have to ensure the resources are accessible to everyone, not just those who can pay premiums. In the case of a crisis in supply or distribution, that would mean the State could act swiftly without a profit incentive to resolve the issue. Amid the cost-of-living crisis, bolstered by energy companies exploiting increased fuel costs, a model of State-owned energy and renewable sources is the only sensible way forward when we are vulnerable to shortages.

Wind energy can also reduce our reliance on foreign energy sources and be a pathway towards self-sustaining energy supplies. When I was in Iceland, a taxi driver told us about how they were entirely self-sufficient in their energy and he could not believe that Ireland, an island off the edge of Europe, was not. There are other island countries that are doing that. It is also risky to put our energy supply in the hands of companies whose profit motive is their only means of survival. State-owned wind supply offers a pathway to a more accessible energy industry where certain people are not exploited for profit and energy can be supplied at cost. This is not a new idea. The Labour Party and other parties have been long-standing advocates of public energy supplies and vehement supporters of workers within these industries. In 2016, my colleague and former Labour Party Deputy, Willie Penrose, suggested a referendum on publicly owned energy utilities. Given the energy crisis across Europe caused by the war in Ukraine, I would be interested to see what the public appetite would be around publicly owned energy utilities, including wind and renewables. State-owned ventures in energy would also reduce the amount paid out in fuel allowance that ends up in the pocket of private energy companies that are hiking up the prices.

These massive changes in energy supply and fossil fuel non-proliferation will involve a complete restructuring of our energy utilities. It is important that I mention the workers involved in these industries. It is essential that we implement a just transition, including a job guarantee and retraining schemes to bring workers from the fossil fuel industry into the wind and renewable sectors. A previous speaker referenced the ESB in their area and what was happening there. The policy of the Labour Party, and I am sure many others, on wind energy is driven by a passion for environmental regeneration and protection. We want to see a timely transition towards the use of wind energy but in order to do this effectively we need a commitment. These three things - the "polluter pays" principle, State ownership of utilities and a just transition for workers - all go hand in hand.

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister to the House. I was going to begin by outlining the broader context of the discussion in terms of the urgency of the transition that is needed. The sixth interim assessment report from the third working group of the IPCC, published last April, made it very clear that there is no space for continuing with fossil fuel expansion or the continuation of fossil fuel exploitation. All of our future energy needs, and we need to be transitioning and substituting, need to be coming from renewable energy. Wind energy must be core, not as a supplement or a competitor in the energy market. It needs to be treated, with other renewables, as the future of the energy market. What happened at European level with the EU taxonomy, which was an opportunity to redirect major investment into renewables, was regrettable. With renewables there can be a very long period of time for the return, for wind energy and certainly for solar.In terms of redirecting energy investment into those areas it was regrettable that the taxonomy was watered down and gas and nuclear were included, meaning the same old areas of investment were again mislabelled as sustainable or indeed renewable. It was a missed opportunity in terms of investment and also international credibility for the European Union on its energy transition.

Wind Energy Ireland has shown the incredible potential there is in Ireland. In 2022, wind generation in Ireland displaced almost €2.6 billion worth of fossil gas in carbon credits from the wholesale market at a time when gas has been shown to be politically, economically and sometimes physically volatile. This displacement is needed urgently and must be accelerated. In March last year, we had a saving of approximately €390 million from wind generation. This shows how important wind generation can be as part of a just transition on this island. In order for wind energy to reach its full potential, however, it is crucial that it is utilised in the context of the public good and not simply seen as an add-on to allow for the expansion in large energy usage.

I welcome the points made by the previous speaker Senator Hoey on the need for us to look to community wind energy generation also to national wind energy generation and a reserve for national uses. We have had the National Oil Reserves Agency for a long time and the idea for that was to act as a safety net. One of the safety nets we need is ensuring the renewable energy we have in this State is available for crucial public goods purposes. That is in the context of concerning evidence and research from, for example, Professor Hannah Daly from University College Cork, UCC, who, in her paper on electricity and gas demand, highlighted that electricity demand is projected to grow from between 19% and 50% over the next ten years. While in most of Europe demand for electricity is stationary or declining, electricity demand from large energy users such as data centres in Ireland has increased by more than 200%. It is important when we talk about wind energy and the need to scale it up that it is not used as an excuse to justify scaling up demand, particularly from large energy users. We do not want to have windmills being built and tied to data centres which are adding to our energy usage. It is almost like the argument that is not enough to recycle and we have moved past that and now talk about reduce and reuse. We need to be reducing energy demand-----

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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-----as well as substituting wind energy and accelerating our full exit from fossil fuels and fossil fuel dependence.

The deployment of renewables for large energy users alone, Professor Daly noted, is unlikely to prevent scenarios such as gas lock-in or to ensure we do not breach our sectoral emissions ceilings. She points again to the need for mitigating measures around demand reduction. That is wind energy for the public good and not simply a competitor in an energy industry. It is one of the lifelines for the collective survival of our society and economy into the future.

With regard to offshore public wind farms, I welcome the fact that public consultations are under way. I note that in the recent report on biodiversity from the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action, of which I am a member, there is a clear acknowledgement of the importance of the regulation of marine environments. There needs to be an integrated approach to marine and coastal management, especially in light of our EU obligations to designate at least 30% of our territorial waters as marine protected areas by 2030. We have put the cart before the horse in some areas in that we looked at the permit system before we looked at the marine protected areas. Something we have heard in the climate committee from companies and those working in the wind industry is that in many cases they want certainty and to have funding for the environmental NGOs. They want good and appropriate environmental impact assessments. The more we put in to making good decisions and being clear about marine protection, the greater the certainty we will have around it. There is sometimes an attitude that we need to get past or around the planning process, whereas if we invest more in applying the environmental tools that are in place, we can make better decisions. That gives to industry the certainty it wants.

In addition to the tools I mentioned, we need more regulation and collective State investment in sonar and seismic activity. That means proper mapping of migration patterns of cetaceans and so on. When something is built, as well as where it is built, can make a big difference. The timing of seasonal migrations can be significant. These are areas where better regulations are not a block to the development of wind energy but will lead to better located energy and, as we know because it is one of the requirements of the taxonomy in terms of investment, the co-benefit that we are contributing to climate targets in a way that does not diminish but in fact supports our biodiversity targets. I think these two areas can be aligned. They are not contradictory and we can do better at integrating those two areas.

I urge the Minister to indicate how we will accelerate the marine protected areas process and those related sets of regulations and ensure they are reflected so that we make good decisions. I also ask him to comment on the issue of national wind energy, community wind energy and the environmental regulation piece. I had a few other points but will leave it at that. I thank the Minister.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I call on the Leader of the House to propose that, notwithstanding anything in the Order of Business, the statements on wind energy will conclude at 2.30 p.m.

Lisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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I propose that the statements on wind energy conclude at 2.30 p.m.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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I will be brief as I know we have a time schedule. I welcome the Minister to the House. I spoke to him previously of my belief in the power of wind energy and what it can do in this country. I am so ambitious for what we have. We do not have many natural resources on this island but we have wind and it blows for free. We have always had it but it is only now that we are able to harness it. We are all frustrated - I am sure our frustration is shared by the Minister - because we want to see wind projects become operational. We see their value, given that 34% of our electricity needs are now catered for by wind energy.

We are a leader in this area and we can be so much better than we are currently. There are delays but there has been significant progress in the two years since the Minister took office. We have the Maritime Area Planning Act and we are moving progressively forward. When will MARA be up and running? Will it be during quarter 1 of this year? How many staff will it have? Have all the staff been recruited? Are they being trained? Will it be oven-ready to make decisions on wind farms?

We have great opportunities along the east coast and it is a real shame we are not ready along the Atlantic coast. The Atlantic will be the tipping point at which we move from being an importer of energy to becoming an exporter. Our targets are very ambitious. While they can be achieved, we need to pull out all the stops. MARA needs to be up and running as soon as possible.

What is the position regarding foreshore licensing? There is a backlog of up to 60 foreshore licence applications in the Department. Where are the answers for businesses that are putting their resources into the huge amount of work needed to get to the point of planning.We need those regulations. I would love to hear from the Minister a concrete date for when those guidelines will be published. There is so much we can do around education. Is there a plan for his Department to work with the Department of higher and further education with regard to apprenticeships and training for people who are going to work on these wind farms? There are good, long-term jobs in local and small areas that can really bring rural Ireland alive.

I also want to ask about the port infrastructure. Belfast was mentioned before. There is nothing wrong with Belfast Port and it is fantastic that it has the infrastructure, but we need an extra port on the island of Ireland. It is too important for the State not to invest in ports. We have Greenore and Drogheda in County Louth. Drogheda has great capacity. It takes in gas. It could be a beacon on the east coast for taking in hydrogen in the future. It needs investment. I would like to know where the plans are in the Department to start investing and make sure those ports are up and running. That is a key question for me. Where are we on MARA? Where is the infrastructure for our ports? Where are the jobs and the plans for up-scaling our apprenticeships and training and making sure we have an efficient timeline process?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We will take four minutes apiece each to accommodate the remaining speakers. I call Senator Chambers, followed by Senator Dolan and Senator Ward.

Lisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
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It is good to have the Minister in the Chamber for this really important debate. I know we met recently to discuss this particular issue, particularly the impending announcement of the phase 2 policy for offshore wind. I am very optimistic about it and I think there are lots of opportunities. However, as somebody living in Mayo I want to put on the record that I want to see an advancement in terms of planning and preparation for floating offshore wind off the west coast of Ireland, including Mayo, Sligo, Donegal and of course Galway.

What I want to ask the Minister and put on the record is when we will get clarity and an announcement around the phase 2 policy. What will be included in that? I understand there will be a staged approach in terms of that maritime area consent and the application that will be permitted. Am I correct in saying that part A will be focusing on the Irish Sea and fixed bottom, and maybe down to the south, and part B will include floating offshore wind? Will the Minister put on the record of the House exactly what part of the country will be covered? My understanding is that it goes up to the south coast of Mayo. Can we get some clarity on that?

I also want to ask about phase 3 which is more long-term planning. When do we expect to move towards phase 3? It is very important that when it comes to a regional approach to offshore wind we do not disincentivise or tell investors or developers looking to invest in offshore wind projects that the west or north west of Ireland is closed for business for another number of years. We want developers and investors to look at the west coast of Ireland. We want them to see a future there and obviously it is the windiest part of the country. It is where the most opportunities are and, yes, the technology probably has to be a little more advanced. However, we know that planning and preparing for these projects needs to start now because it is a long-term project that we want to plan for.

With that in mind will the Minister outline to the House what the plans are for investment in Shannon Foynes, as that is where we will be landing a lot of the electricity? What are the plans for Galway, because there is also a port there we can use? How do we envisage encouraging investors to invest in the west and the north west?

One of the concerns I raised directly with the Minister, and is something both he and the Department are mindful of, is that we would have a staged approach in terms of phase 2 and that the west of Ireland and the north-west coast would be at a much later stage. What are the implications of that in terms of messaging? What are we saying to developers and investors if we do not allow them to look in that space now and put that off? Finally, like my colleague, Senator McGreehan, I want to ask about MARA and the resourcing of it. It has a big task ahead of it. We have very ambitious emissions reduction targets. We have to have equally ambitious offshore floating wind projects as well. Will MARA be adequately resourced to deal with what is being asked of it.

Barry Ward (Fine Gael)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire freisin agus tá mé an-sásta ráiteas a dhéanamh ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo faoi choinne gaoithe.  Táimid ag féachaint ach go háirithe ar Bhaile Átha Cliath agus ar Chuan Bhaile Átha Cliath agus na rudaí atá ar siúl ansin.  Tá mé an-sásta ar fad gur féidir liom ráiteas a dhéanamh ar na rudaí sin.

I want to talk particularly about projects planned in the wind energy space for Dublin Bay. The projects for the Kish Bank and the Codling Bank are operated, respectively, by Dublin Array and Ocean Winds. There is so much room for development in this space. As we go through that, I am aware that a lot of people locally are concerned about the effects those projects are going to have on their views, on the biodiversity of the area and on the ecosystem etc.

The issue that I particularly wanted to raise with the Minister today was a way to reassure people that they do not need to worry about that. I know there are people living in Dalkey and Killiney whose views will be interrupted, but I think they can accept that there is a sacrifice to be made there for a very good reason. More importantly, there are concerns about the ecosystem and one hears reports of wind turbines having an effect on bird life. Furthermore, in the case of Ocean Winds and Dublin Array, they will be attached to the sea floor, and where they meet the sea floor there are potential problems with biodiversity and the effect on marine life. I understand those problems can be addressed, but I think there is a role, particularly for the Minister's Department, in making sure that local people understand that they do not need to worry about those problems, and also that they know how they are going to be addressed.

The technology involved is staggering to my mind. I have looked at this and the fact that one can put a wind turbine in up to 60 m of water in a heavy tidal area like the Irish Sea is, in and of itself, amazing. However, what we can generate from these wind turbines and the benefits for local communities, the economy and our overall energy consumption are enormous.

To a large extent, the Minister's Department is leaving that space open for the companies operating these projects. The role of informing people what is happening has largely fallen to those companies. I think there is a gap there from the perspective of the State and the Government. I know these companies have met with local councillors in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown and other local authorities. I know that they have run public information sessions and that is fine. However, they are not disinterested parties and they obviously have an interest in this going ahead. I also know from speaking people locally that they do not always have faith in what those companies are saying to them. I am concerned that a gap is being left there in terms of honest and reliable answers being given. I think that there is a role for public consultation not just in Dublin Bay, but in respect of each project around the country to inform people of what is happening and what the issues are. That will allow people to have confidence in the projects as they go forward. I hope the Department will take concrete steps to reassure people that these projects are worthwhile, important and beneficial to everyone involved.

Aisling Dolan (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister and thank him for his visit to Athlone. It was great to see the first electric bus in one of the first regional spots outside the city in Dublin. Of course, we also have our brand new cycle way so they will be bussing and cycling it all through the midlands and into the west.

I really appreciate the Minister being here to speak on wind energy. As has been mentioned many times Ireland's maritime area is seven times larger than its land mass. It is great when one looks at that map and sees the real strength of what Ireland is and what it has to offer in terms of renewable energy. I welcome that the Minister has noted clearly in frameworks that coastal and marine communities are really going to benefit. In other words, even before the construction of these turbines and wind farms, the communities involved will benefit from a community fund.

I know the Government has approved the terms and conditions of the first offshore wind auction. Are there any further updates on this? Do I understand correctly that the maritime area consent, MAC, the Minister gave prior to Christmas is allowing seven different projects? Is there any further update on that or is there a way where any other groups will come in under this MAC prior to the start of the new maritime area regulatory authority? It is so important and crucial, as has been mentioned already, to develop offshore wind, particularly in the west and in the Atlantic.It is important for the communities in those areas. It is about supporting jobs and communities. That is crucial and it is what I see in the delivery of renewable energy for a country that has been experiencing tight energy supplies over the past year.

The networks for net zero strategy from ESB Networks has set clear targets for what they company sees coming up to 2050, as far as I am aware. Would the Minister like to comment on that? I apologise, as there was no hand-out of the Minister’s speech earlier. I do not know if that can be emailed to us, but we did not receive a hand-out of it. The Minister mentioned SACs and SPAs that are required from the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, before any further decisions can be made. I do not know whether he can comment on that. We have many in the west. I know this relates more to onshore energy, but the Minister might comment on SACs and SPAs.

Finally, in the west, it is Derrybrien in Galway, and in Gort. There has been much debate with our councillors in Galway County Council around this and everything that has happened. I do not know if the Minister can comment on whether the turbines are being taken down and what sort environmental impact that may have on the local area. There are so many wishes for what has happened and what should never have happened in terms of the peat slides. However, now that it is in place, what will be done to protect the environment? In addition, there are many turbines currently in Derrybrien.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for allowing the debate to be extended and all colleagues for their contributions. The Minister will be that on the same week more than six years ago, the Vatican and the Pentagon issued a statement that the issue of climate change and climate justice was the biggest issue facing security and peace in the world. The Minister, his Department and Ireland are playing a lead role on that. I thank him for that.

I invite him to conclude the debate.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I am very conscious that I focused on offshore energy in my commentary. I was not sure whether it was a wider debate. I got an indication that it was primarily that. However, there were a number of questions about the onshore energy from Senator Kyne and others. Others asked about the wind guidelines and Derrybrien. We will have to do a lot of work on onshore as well. We are not finished there. There is huge potential benefit in developing that for local use of that energy as well as for meeting our climate targets.

I will go through a number of the questions that various Senators raised. I will start on this issue of An Bord Pleanála, which Senator McDowell raised, in terms of whether we should be looking for another vehicle. I would be reluctant to start recreating a new planning system or organisation within that. I take his point that An Bord Pleanála has a remarkable breadth of hugely important projects in front of it at the moment. I could go on. He mentioned ten-storey blocks, the metro, the DART+ - I am just thinking about my transport brief alone – BusConnects and Cork metropolitan rail. That is all before An Bord Pleanála as we speak, before we consider housing, energy, water, health and education and all the buildings. Our big project is in capital.

I believe the Government legislation due to go before the joint Oireachtas committee on the environment is critical in the revision, update or modernisation of the Planning and Development Act 2000 and will resolve many of the difficulties there. It does not fundamentally throw the baby out with the bath water. We are sticking with the same environmental rights and access to justice rights. However, we need to take this legislation. Part of the problem for An Bord Pleanála and others is that legislation has been amended so many times that it is often contradictory, as I am told by expert lawyers. It needs this consolidation, which I hope will help not only An Bord Pleanála, but developers and local communities engage in the planning system. That will require massive upscaling of An Bord Pleanála and indeed a number of further judicial appointments. It is not just An Bord Pleanála; my understanding is the court’s ability to progress these issues is among the constraints that we face. Included in that, the development under this Government of a new environment court, which can start straight away, is one of the examples of the resourcing we will have to provide. An Bord Pleanála had been provided those resources. They are employing marine experts. They are not easy to get and there is a limited resource. If a child is looking at the CAO application at the moment, I would recommend considering ecology and environmental studies. That is where all the employment is at the moment. You cannot get people with expertise in that area. We are scaling up An Bord Pleanála.

A number of Senators raised the issue of MARA. Just to reassure people, the agency is up and running and in effect. We have 20 people working there and a new CEO is being interviewed as we speak. A new chair was appointed last week by Government. MARA will hit the ground running; it has to. I believe it is the right institutional structure. In many ways, on the offshore wind side, MARA, in the consenting role it will have and the ability to provide much of the preplanning and environmental analysis and so on will help when it comes down to the final decision-making.

Senator McGahon asked if the Civil Service is slowing it down. The answers is "No". We had a meeting yesterday. Civil servants take part in the task force we have, which has been in place for a year, on offshore wind development. In delivering what we need to do in climate, we are focusing on the next three years. We have a task force on sustainable mobility and one on heat. However, the task force on offshore wind development was up and running first and is most active now. The laser focus is on delivery, particularly in the next three years. On the way that these task forces work, we learned from Covid and Brexit that you get away sometimes from that bureaucratic glue within our public service when you bring different Departments together with agencies and outside expertise, and engage in stakeholder engagement on an ongoing basis so it is transparent, public and it has tight timelines. We have project management teams in place with outside project management expertise, which see, in each of the areas of responsibility, Gantt charts that show in which month things need to be delivered. It is an incredibly tight timeline. We have no time to spare, as it were, because we are in a race. That is what is happening. The job of the political system – this House, the Dáil and also myself as Minister and my team – is to hold those teams of public servants to account to make sure we deliver. That is happening.

A number of Senators mentioned the issue of ports. They are correct that this is probably one of the tightest supply constraints. Many of our ports are involved in deploying wind turbines. The turbines that were in Connemara came in through Galway port. Our ports are skilled in importing and disturbing. Many of the first projects for our ports will be deployment assembly. As we move into the large offshore floating, I expect we will move into much more industrial manufacturing fabrication opportunities. That will take slightly longer. We have to get our ports ready for deployment in these phase 1 projects. Again, the key issue will be getting MARA to do some of the consenting on the foreshore licensing in a timely manner that allows the deployment to happen.

Senator Byrne asked about vessels. There are constraints in every sector. There are constraints in cabling, foundation making, turbine manufacture and shipping, as well as in ports in terms of capacity across north-west Europe and indeed elsewhere abroad. Many of the companies are global and therefore, they are providing for one market or another. That is why we have to be quick. We have the right system in place. On our offshore renewable energy support scheme 1, ORESS 1, structure, I heard from the industry that we got it right and put the right provisions in place to allow us to compete with other international locations. The more certainty we have around this politically and in the planning system, the better able we will be to attract those resources.

Senator Chambers is concerned about the west not being in our thoughts and far from them. That first place one would like to see us develop because that is where the strongest resource is. Indeed, in the phase 1 projects we have a project on the Sceirde Rocks in the west. I mentioned the new chair of MARA. He is as proud a Mayo man as you could get. It is not as if the system will not be looking to develop in the west. Senator Dolan asked where we are on the SPAs and SACs. That is a critical issue for us. I am reassured by the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, that we will have all the necessary planning information on the designation of those areas in place for the phase 1 projects to assist the planning system in developing the projects. Much more work needs to be done, especially in the south and west, on baseline data about cetaceans, birds and others. That work must be done in the time covered by the Gantt chart which sets out what needs to be in place for us to develop. That is the key constraint. People in Mayo are concerned about getting the investment. The underlying analysis of the environmental data and the sharing of the data will be the most important issues. I will leave it on that "The West's Awake" note.