Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House and thank her for the extensive work she has done in the preparation of this Bill and her willingness to engage directly with us as Senators on this important issue. It comes at a time when the importance of significant reform of An Garda Síochána is widely recognised. We know about the necessity of that due to issues that arose in our recent history, during the past eight to ten years. It was a very dark period for An Garda Síochána and, thankfully, we are seeing a progressive approach to reform that will meet the needs of our society and the needs of those who keep us safe, namely, members of An Garda Síochána.

The more independence that can be brought to bear the better, and this Bill goes a long way in that regard. We have seen the detrimental impact of a lack of independence around promotions within An Garda Síochána in over the years, the destabilising effect it has had on the organisation, and the negative impact it has had on new recruits failing to see a pathway forward. We are discussing this Bill in the context of significant flux and significant agitation. I want to use this opportunity to condemn the efforts by some outside this House, some within this House, and some within elements of Government who have sought to personalise this. I have been a Member of these Houses for more than 20 years and have seen that practice in the past. It is an exercise in attributing blame to the Minister. It usually happens in the Department of Health and has happened in the Department of Justice also in the past. It is wrong, it is unhelpful, and it does not lead towards keeping the pressure at the point where it needs to be kept. The Minister is responsible for the legislative approach and has clearly delivered on her mandate by bringing forward this legislation today and I wish her well with it.

In that context, a couple of things have been raised with me that I will share with the Minister, as others have. Members of Fórsa have been in touch, and I know there are a number of them in the audience, and some from my own constituency have been in touch also. They are concerned. I know there are officials present. I see the president of Fórsa, Mr.Michael Smyth, who is a regular advocate and who spends time in this House working quietly with politicians behind the scenes to get results. I know that would be his approach. The concerns are about the terms and conditions and about the transfer. The Minister has indicated the transfer will not happen straight away and that is welcome, but there needs to be meaningful engagement. Anything that can be done there would be important. I am familiar with historical issues where people transferred from what was the Department of Post and Telegraphs or the Department of Transport to different entities, whether it was the Irish Aviation Authority, the Dublin Airport Authority, the Shannon Airport authority or whatever, and at the time believing they had cast-iron guarantees they would not end up in a worse situation than they were in or that nobody would end up better off than them by them transferring across. Quite frankly, it did not transpire because of the direction in which things happened. It makes eminent sense to me that the Garda Commissioner and the new entities being established have overall responsibility for staff within their jurisdiction. I get that; it makes sense. What would not make sense is if somebody transferred from being a civil servant to being a public servant under the auspices of An Garda Síochána and ended up losing out, whether through pensions rights or whatever. There is some work to be done there and I hope the Minister, through her officials, can find a way of engaging with Fórsa, which is a very professional organisation. There is no doubt about that.

There are also issues around mobility and I know there are some within the Civil Service generally who have had opportunities to move between Departments. If they move under the auspices of An Garda Síochána, they may not have that and maybe that needs to be addressed as well. However, those things are not really for the legislative chamber but for industrial relations, and I hope that will happen.

I like what has been set out in this Bill on the independent oversight of An Garda Síochána. We have all witnessed the small elements of wrongdoing that have got way too much publicity over the years, damaged the reputation of An Garda Síochána and cast shadows on the hard-working good men and women who have served their country to an impeccable degree. We need to find a process to bring those to a conclusion more quickly. I had a conversation with a couple of gardaí yesterday and we spoke about the roster. They said that is an issue but there are more issues, such their pensions that have been weakened or lessened as a result of the time. There is also the issue of spurious complaints made against them. It can hold up a promotion for a prolonged period. I hope the independent oversight set out in this Bill will have the capacity to deliver and meet the expectations not just of the society the Garda serves but meet the needs of the hard-working men and women in the organisation.

On the issue of governance and the idea of a non-executive board of directors, that is a great idea because it should not be all about the Commissioner and it is a way of moving it into a professional manner rather than making it a political football.