Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House and recognise the fact, as Members do, that she is a particularly reforming Minister who takes a much broader perception of what the Department is about and a more holistic view of how things should be done. That has been visible in the area of domestic violence and so on and it is clear here today too. It is necessary. That is not to say that she strays from the core objectives - she does not - but it is important also to think outside the box a little. I welcome that.

To turn to the Bill, I have several observations. Of course, Fine Gael is supporting the Bill. I like the first concept the Minister set out, namely, that community safety be a whole-of-government responsibility. I have just come from an event organised by my good colleague Senator Lombard at which we were addressed by representatives of the Dyslexia Association of Ireland, including their ambassador, Miss Ireland, and so on. One of them made the point that a disproportionate number of prisoners in jails have dyslexia. That is the case because they are alienated at school and dysfunctional in the traditional school setting, which leads to a general dysfunctionality and alienation that leads to detachment from the apparatus of the country and the Government and results in crime. There is a disproportionate number of such people in jail. Similarly, Seán Campbell, CEO of Foróige, addressed us recently. He made the point that for every euro spent on youth services intervening with young people, €2.50 of a return is accrued in the sense that prison sentences, health issues and so on are reduced.

The broad point is that community welfare, policing and security is a broad interdepartmental challenge. I welcome that. It is in the legislation, but I ask the Minister to explain further in her response how exactly each Department will get to make an impact. In what ways will they be made responsible for dealing with facets of potential causes of crime and difficulties in the sense of this being a whole-of-government responsibility? It is already so in a theoretical sense but it is important to give it more practical effect.

This is Second Stage, which allows a certain level of licence. It has recently been reported in local media that there might be a diminution of community policing. I would like the Minister, in her response, to provide an assurance that will not be the case. I know it is not implicit in the Bill in any way but it would be good to know as a general point in the context of discussing the legislation.

We need to look at the individuals in question - the vulnerable people at risk, as the Minister stated. That is a worthy first objective. She set out that a second objective is to strengthen independent external oversight of An Garda Síochána. Of course, that is very welcome. As the previous speaker stated, it is something that almost all gardaí would welcome. The Bill provides for the establishment of a new policing oversight body and a reform system for the handling and investigation of allegations of Garda wrongdoing. It is important for that mechanism and those procedures to be in place. There should be a public dimension to that, not only in the sense of openness and transparency but also through the involvement of laypeople and those outside of policing.

The Bill strengthens internal governance by establishing a new non-executive board and corporate governance structure. That is a novel concept in the context of An Garda Síochána. It was not there previously. If I understand other briefing notes correctly, this is an international norm. I ask the Minister to confirm whether that is the case and to say how it has worked elsewhere. It is an interesting idea and I hope it will improve management. It might in some way head off the kind of difficulties that are currently being experienced, where there is a collision between the Commissioner and the membership of An Garda Síochána. The existence of such a body as a corporate governance board might be helpful in that context.

Obviously, as in all similar situations, the Commissioner will deal with HR, industrial relations, finance and workforce planning. That contradicts what I just said but, at the same time, the existence of the board in an advisory capacity might help.While I welcome an independent commissioner supported by the board, what tends to happen in practice is that there is a community of effort. When we were in local government, people would decry their lack of powers and that certainly was an issue but there tended to be a shared responsibility at the same time, a mutual satisfactory coexistence between the members and the executive in most cases, or at least where good practice existed. Similarly, there should be a good level of interaction here. In that context, I would support and endorse the words of my colleague, Senator Gallagher. I know it is uppermost in the Minister's mind and we all look forward to the current dispute being resolved. Every mechanism available should be used to try to achieve that. It behoves both parties to move to try to resolve it.

The concept of an independent examiner for national security arrangements and legislation is an interesting one. That has a particular relevance in the context of what happened on the first day of the new parliamentary term when there was a very disturbing presence outside these Houses. That is an important point and I ask the Minister to elaborate further on how that might work. It is a very important provision given the existence of the far right.

I like the idea of civilian staff and for many years, mine was one of many voices calling for the recruitment of as many civilian staff as possible into An Garda Síochána. Indeed, many such staff are in the Public Gallery today and they are very welcome. Civilian staff are crucial so that we can have our gardaí on the streets and in active service, doing what they do best and what they want to be doing, which is policing. We should augment our civilian staff. I have no doubt the Minister will be saying later that she is actively working on this, that there is no threat to the terms and conditions of existing staff and that there will be more civilian staff, which is how it should be. I would like to hear more about that. The concept of increasing and augmenting the number of civilian staff is a good one. The prerogative lies with the Commissioner, who determines when they become necessary and not only is it cost-effective, it is also much more efficacious in every way.