John Dolan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Chathaoirleach. I welcome the Minister of State. The more I hear people say they are all in favour of Seanad reform, the more it reminds me of something Pierrepoint, our hangman, is supposed to have said to one of the subjects, which was: "Son, I am here to help". I do not believe people when they say that 13 or 14 reports later. We could do things in this House tomorrow morning that would show we are reformative.

I refer to the issue of cost and whether we believe the House has a valued role. That is looking not only at its cost but at its value. What is the opportunity cost of having the House? We saw posters saying the House cost €20 million, trying to frighten people into not supporting the retention of the Seanad. If cost is the only issue, let us agree to disagree on areas of reform and put forward a menu that we will all accept and then sit down with the smart people, maybe in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform who seem to know an awful lot about cutting cloth to measure, and work out a cost. Why would one let a technical issue stop one from discussing the principal issue? That bothers me.

In 2003, the organisation I am also employed by, namely, the Disability Federation of Ireland, put pen to paper and made a submission to one of those reviews. We were invited in and I sat in one of those seats with our chairman. I might as well have been elsewhere.

We have to stop. We cannot keep saying we are in favour of reform-----