Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senator Reilly for her amendment. In response I would point out that it is important to note that NewERA does not have any executive functions in its own right. It is being established in an advisory capacity as a source of dedicated, corporate finance expertise which will be available to relevant Ministers. The Minister can request NewERA to provide project management services or to oversee the acquisition or disposal of an interest in or assets of a designated body or any winding up, reorganisation or restructuring of a designated body. Ministers will continue to be accountable to the Oireachtas in the normal way for the performance of their executive functions. That is where I would disagree with the Senator on the need for this amendment, because this is not conferring executive powers on NewERA; it is merely establishing NewERA to carry out the important role of providing advice. The policy and executive decisions remain very much with the Minister.

With respect to the disposal of an interest in a designated body, the commercial semi-states are all established under legislation in a variety of ways and they have statutory functions and obligations. There is no one simple answer to the question of whether a Minister could dispose of an interest in a commercial semi-state body. I will give the House a few examples. The State companies generally have legislation permitting the disposal of assets or shares in certain subsidiaries, subject to ministerial consent. The ESB, for or example, has been able to sell individual power generation assets without the need for additional primary legislation. The sale of Bord Gáis Energy, however, required primary legislation because the business we sold - namely, the supply of gas - was a statutory function of Bod Gáis. In regard to Bord na Móna, section 16(3) of the Turf Development Act 1998 provides that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform "shall not, unless authorised by Dáil Éireann by resolution to do so, reduce his or her holding of shares to less than a majority of the issued shares". There is a clear obligation in that instance for the Minister to seek the authorisation of the Dáil. Given that the commercial semi-states on which NewERA will advise are all established under statute, it is very difficult to imagine a situation in which any of the designated bodies could be sold without amending the underpinning legislation. A critical point here is that a potential buyer would inevitably seek legal certainty before committing to acquiring a designated entity.

I must emphasise the point that while Ministers may request that NewERA provide property management services or oversight in relation to the disposal of an interest in a designated body, NewERA cannot do so in its own right, and a Minister can ask NewERA to do only things that he or she has power to do already. Ministers will remain accountable to the Oireachtas and will need to bring required legislation through the Oireachtas and justify it there in the normal parliamentary way.

The effect of this amendment, ironically, would be to take away from the Minister the possibility of seeking further expert advice from NewERA where it is proposed to acquire or dispose of an interest in a commercial semi-state or to wind up, restructure or reorganise a semi-state. Without this provisions Ministers would ask their Departments to look after the proposed acquisition or disposal in the normal way. They might even hire consultants to do so. This provision means that Ministers will be able to draw on the expertise of a dedicated public service entity instead. That seems to be a good thing.

Following on from the exchange I had with Senator Barrett on the need to broaden the pool of advice and to be able draw on new expertise, in that sense, the addition of NewERA as an advisory body to a Minister when he or she is considering any of these issues is, in my view and the view of the Minister for Finance, a good thing, and for that reason I will not be accepting the amendment.