David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

With the permission of the House, I would like to share two minutes of my time with Senator Sean D. Barrett.

I welcome the Minister. I am sorry he was not here a little earlier because, as a former Member of the House who had opposed the retention of the Seanad, I am sure he would have felt the people were right had he seen the Bill, initiated by Senator John Crown, one of our leading cancer specialists, being passed with the co-operation of his colleague, the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly. The Bill will have a very significant impact on children's health by preventing people from smoking in cars with children.

I take a slightly dissenting view on this matter because the European Union has not behaved well at all and was extraordinarily cack-handed in its diplomatic approaches to it. By pushing into an area which was clearly in the Russian sphere of influence without proper discussions and negotiations and without bringing the Russians in, it allowed Russia to pose as being frightened, even if it was not. With great deference to our friends and guests from Ukraine, the problem is that Ukraine is very mixed. Even the people who support the European Union told us there were mixed views and divided opinions in Ukraine, including among Russian speakers and Russian nationals. It was exceptionally stupid of the incoming government after the revolution or coup to ban the Russian language as one of its first acts. It did not suggest good will. The appalling right-wing elements in the government are a tragedy.

I am glad that Senator Paschal Mooney raised the issue of the Sudetenland and that the Minister raised the question of 1914 because there are comparisons but also significant differences. Had the Prince of Wales been shot in Dublin the British Empire would not have stood silently by. The Austrians were completely justified in the First World War and we were on the wrong side in terms of the geopolitical elements, although there were also business matters at stake. Hitler stirred things up in the Sudetenland, but while there is an apparent, superficial parallel, it is not the same. The very word "Russia" comes from Ukraine, the Russian state and people originate in Ukraine and there is an extraordinary emotional bond. While I am not saying the pro-western people who are concentrated in the larger western part of Ukraine do not and should not have rights - one hopes the country is sustainable - Crimea was part of Russia and Khrushchev had no right to give it away. Suppose the people of Hawaii who have been trampled by American colonialism appealed to Russia to take over and protect their rights as Hawaiians, despite the enormous naval installations the Americans have on the islands. That would be one for the books.

With regard to all of this pious stuff, and I know that the Minister of State means it because he is a good person, but it is all bilge basically because there is not a rule of law anywhere in the world. Just look at the way people's rights have been trampled on all over Africa, inside China and inside the United States. How can anyone be serious about the rule of law when Obama, whom we all thought would be a breath of fresh air, has authorised ten times the amount of drone strikes in which civilians are killed? What happened to the rule of law in that instance? What happened to the right to a trial, the right to be indicted, the right to be arrested, and the right to a fair trial? That has all gone and is perpetrated by our friends the Americans.

What about when we talk about small nations and their right to do this, that and the other? We had an honourable policy under Frank Aiken with regard to Tibet. However, every single Government since then has slid away from that. If we substitute Tibet for Ukraine what does one get? Not a squeak. When Dublin City Council tried to give the Dalai Lama the freedom of the city of Dublin its idea was squashed for petty partisan reasons. I suggested that the Dalai Lama should be invited to the foreign affairs committee but my suggestion was squashed because we are afraid to alienate the Chinese. That is not a moral position but a financial one.

I do not believe that sanctions will make a huge difference unless they get to a point where they damage the Irish economy as well. I agree with colleagues who suggested that we should be given some information about the impact they would have on the Irish economy. I do not think that it is huge but I know that balance is in our favour with regard to Ukraine.