Averil Power (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I did not realise I had such distinguished visitors behind me.

I support the overall point Senator Zappone is making. Senators Zappone and Norris have argued there is a distinction to be made between a court saying that the Bill in its original form is consistent with the Constitution, but it is a hell of a long stretch from that to assert that it is required by the Constitution. That has been bandied about but the court did not say it. Over the last two debates, we were told we could not press these issues because it would be unconstitutional. That is not true. There has been no determination on that. The court simply decided that the Bill as put forward was consistent with the Constitution. It did not comment on whether an alternative Bill, my amendments, Senator Zappone's amendments or anyone else's amendments would be consistent with the Constitution.

On the broader religion point, I accept that if someone is to work as a religion teacher, cleric or in another religious role, it is essential that he or she believes in the relevant faith. Senator Norris's point is well made. It is difficult to pass on one's faith or engage in religious instruction in a genuine and forceful way if one does not share that faith. That should not be used to discriminate against staff whose role is primarily secular. We must find a better balance on this issue. I do not know if Senator Zappone intends to push her amendments today. I hope not as I would like us to have more engagement on what is possible and desirable. Some of these issues may need to be taken up in the broader context of patronage of schools. Issues in relation to staff entitlements and protecting people's rights should be taken up here.

We have had debates in this House and elsewhere on the desirability of having fewer schools under religious management and having our education system more directly reflect our society. However, it would be fair enough to insist that anyone working in a school that is under religious management upholds the ethos of the school while there and refrains from saying anything inappropriate in the classroom. He or she should not criticise the Pope, for example. Nobody would have an issue with that. I cannot imagine that any teacher would put himself or herself in that situation. Short of that, if a person shows respect for the school and the school's ethos, I cannot see why he or she should be denied a job because of his or her private faith. I do not understand it and consider it to be utterly unnecessary. It is a form of inequality we should not stand for in this day and age.

In the last debate, Senator Bacik referred to EU Directive 78/2000 and said it required that kind of discrimination. In fact, it does not. Similar to the others provisions that have been cited here regarding the Constitution, it provides that member states "may" provide that a difference of treatment shall not constitute discrimination in certain circumstances. It says that member states "may" maintain national legislation in force on the date of the adoption of the directive or provide future legislation incorporating national practices existing at that date. The difference in treatment shall then be implemented taking account of member states' constitutional provisions and principles.

It goes on to say that where an ethos is based on religion or belief, the directive shall not prejudice the right of churches and other public organisations - acting in conformity with national constitutions and laws - to require individuals working for them to act in good faith and with loyalty to such organisation's ethos. The language throughout the directive refers to "may" rather than insisting. That last paragraph reflects what I have just said which is that people would act in good faith and with loyalty to the organisation. If someone of the Protestant or other faith or who has no faith is looking for a job in a Catholic school, he or she should be required to uphold the ethos of the school and not actively seek to undermine it. He or she should show loyalty to his or her employer and act in good faith.

Clearly, a person should not stand up in classroom and challenge or criticise the tenets of the faith or church and actively work against the ethos of the school. However, I do not see how quietly carrying out one's private faith in one's own time in any way represents failing to act in good faith and with loyalty to the organisation's ethos. There is scope for us and the directive does not represent a blanket reason for us not addressing the religion ground. We must find a wording on the religion ground which is consistent with the directive, but according to the advice I have taken since the last debate, it is not as strong as was argued last time out. There is scope for improvement.