David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Well I was a teacher and I know something about the subject. Regardless of whether she was a teacher, the Minister of State is a woman of imagination and vision so she can understand what is involved. In the context of the matter under discussion, I am aware that what is envisaged would be very bad practice. Obviously, it would be absurd to try to force the Church of Ireland and the Roman Catholic Church to employ atheists or Mormons as clerics. That would be daft and the job specification would militate against it. I am sure there is employment legislation under which this matter could be dealt with and in the context of which it might be made clear that someone is not suitable or qualified for the job and that he or she should go elsewhere to teach atheism or Mormonism.

As stated, I hope to table amendments for Report Stage. I also hope the matter will not be put to a vote at this point. I will be tabling an amendment in respect of the word "religious". In Ireland, that word has a particularly narrow connotation. I would like to change the legislation to read "religious or belief-based". This would allow us to include all different belief systems. I would also like to amend the legislation in order that it would read "where it is reasonable to conclude that performing the job concerned objectively requires an employee to hold a particular religion or belief". The latter would cover Bible classes, religious instruction and so on. It would also leave intact the rights of people who are atheistic, gay or whatever. I would also include the following text at the end of the subsection, "but publicly and lawfully manifesting a religion or a belief shall not be grounds for undermining the ethos of an institution".

A situation similar to that with which we are dealing here arose in Scotland some 15 years ago. I refer to the case of a young man who was employed as a gardener in a public school and who was seen on television holding a banner at a gay rights demonstration in Edinburgh. He was dismissed from his post and the decision to dismiss him was upheld by the highest court in Scotland. That was a dangerous development. The man was a gardener and he was not corrupting anyone. He had a perfect right, as a citizen, to hold a banner. It was quite reasonable for him to do so and his behaviour was not an infringement of the rights of the school involved. If a person behaves outrageously or turbulently, there are many manifest grounds for getting rid of him or her. It is for this reason that the phrase "publicly and lawfully manifesting a religion or a belief shall not be grounds for undermining the ethos of an institution" should be included in the legislation.

I hope to table quite a number of amendments for Report Stage. I welcome what Senator Zappone stated and I welcome the Minister of State's presence in the House for this debate. I will be supporting the amendments tabled by Senator Power. In an institution that is increasingly dominated by bourgeois voices, it is very good to have someone like the Senator who represents a conservative party but who takes a radical view and who considers situations in a realistic light. I look forward to the continuing debate on this matter.