Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Fianna Fáil will be supporting the Bill. In particular we believe the changes to severance pay are needed. There was no reason to have that type of severance pay in the first place. It is a simple change that requires to be made. We also recognise that costs must be saved on the party leader's allowance and the funding to political parties. We accept and will support that but it should be put on the record that this funding is critical to the operation of the democratic system, and everybody accepts that, provided it is spent appropriately. The way Independent Members had an unvouched system of substantial amounts of money is a scandal. That was a product of the influence Independent Members had when parties, and my party in particular, could not form an overall majority in the Dáil. That is where that system appears to have come from but it is about time it came to an end because it enabled Independents to have a slush fund available to them that effectively could be spent on anything, regardless of the rules, as it was an unvouched system. That must happen.

This Bill will put burdens on political parties but they are no greater than the burdens on any person. They are probably not as great as the burdens on most people but it will probably have an impact on jobs within certain political parties, and on employment also, and that must be remembered when we are passing this legislation.

The Minister sets out what he says is a huge range of reforms relating to the workings of the Houses of the Oireachtas and opening up society. I acknowledge that some good things are being done but in terms of the way people see these Houses still operating, the Seanad yesterday nominated an Ombudsman without debate, major European legislation has been passed without debate, and the guillotine is still being imposed on important legislation before the Dáil such as the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill. People remain to be convinced about reform.

We have had major scandals over the years, particularly in regard to retired Ministers receiving pensions while still Members of the Oireachtas. That was a cross-party affair. As of 2009, ten Fianna Fáil, eight Fine Gael and a couple of Labour Deputies and Senators were in receipt of ministerial pensions while serving. Some of those people serve in the Cabinet now, therefore, their conversion to cost-saving is to be welcomed but that is a fact and it was never right. Somebody like me who came into this House at the end of that period could see that it was illogical, that it did not have the support of the public and that it greatly angered the public because they did not appear to happen in any other job.

At the same time the public recognises that politics and law making has a cost and as my party leader said in a debate on the Seanad referendum, it is important that we spend a reasonable amount of money on law-making. We spend a huge amount of money on law enforcement through the Garda and the courts system, etc., but some money must be spent on making laws and ensuring we have the best advice possible.

The party leaders' allowance must be properly audited, spent and accounted for, which has been done for some years, because it was subject to considerable scandal. We should not forget that, and I am not forgetting it. It was the subject of tribunal discussions and findings over the years. That has changed. Thankfully, the accounting requirements for political parties were brought in some time ago and I am glad to see those extended to Independent Members. That is a welcome change which I believe the public will support because it is important, particularly for Opposition parties. We see that now in opposition. It is much easier when a party is in government because it has a phalanx of civil servants who do not do political work but some of the products of their work can find their way into political parties or in terms of helping parties in government simply by having that support. However, Opposition parties depend on this funding to be able to take part in the democratic process, do the proper research and employ people who are educated to help as it is required. The buck stops with us, the Members, however, and we must do the best job we can do, but with help that is paid for by this allowance.

We will support this legislation. I do not expect we will put down any significant amendments to it but it is important that it goes through the proper Stages of debate.