Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Go raibh maith agat. Most people agree that Ireland is a very proud nation - a nation of great tenacity. We had to pay dearly for control of our destiny and the democracy which we have. The referendum posters in support of the abolition of the Seanad put forward as reasons for its abolition the saving of €20 million and the reduction in the number of politicians. I wonder what visitors will think if the people have actually come to that point, no matter what economic challenges we are facing. I have done a number of interviews on the subject, and last week I, together with a former senior Fine Gael minister - a gentleman - were debating the matter. My argument was that the proposed saving of €20 million could not be substantiated, even taking into account the so-called indirect expenses, for which no evidence has been provided. He agreed quite casually that the figure of €20 million was not correct. On the subject of fewer politicians, I mentioned that prior to the last election, we were promised that there would be 20 fewer Dáil Deputies. He agreed again that this proposal was modified to a reduction of eight in the number of Deputies. If that is the essence of civilised debate on getting rid of a House of Parliament and if that is meant to reflect who we are as a people - which I do not believe it does - we are, I think, in a sorry state at present.

Anybody suggesting getting rid of a House of the Oireachtas surely should have put forward a White Paper or a Green Paper-----