David Norris (Independent)

When I twice raised the issue of the forcible castration of 16 year old boys in Holland, the only person in this House who referred to it was Senator Cummins. I suggest that the motion be amended to include the whole of the human species and not just women. I am sure that the proposers would agree with that.

I will refer to criminalising the purchase of sex. I do not approve of prostitution and have never used the services of a prostitute, but I have encountered prostitutes. When I bought my house on North Great George's Street some 35 years ago, a young woman was working as a prostitute in the basement next door. On the night of an All-Ireland final, a group of "young gentlemen" in elevated spirits attempted to break the door down and get a group rate. I went over with my real 19th century shillelagh and got rid of them. She invited me in and gave me a cup of tea. I have visited a brothel a couple of times. Each time, it was to protect the vulnerable. I cannot say much about that woman, but she was certainly doing it voluntarily.

The trivialisation and commodification of sex are real and appalling, but do we honestly believe that we will eliminate prostitution? It is not possible. If we lived in a perfect world and it was possible, it would be grand. Senator Mac Conghail knows of the riots that occurred at the time of the "Plough and the Stars". A member of the audience shouted that it was a libel against the women of Ireland because there was not a prostitute the length and breadth of the country. That audience was within a cuckoo's spit of what was then the largest red light district in the whole of Europe. The district was subsequently attacked by the forces of Frank Duff, which had all the brothels closed down. The result was a significant increase in disease. This problem must be addressed. For this reason, it is important that we recognise and study the UN report.

I helped to write a report on human trafficking. While these issues are related, they are not identical. If we try to make them so, we will make a big mistake. Our principal attack should be on trafficking, a most repugnant and disgraceful activity that is linked with many problems, not just prostitution. For example, it is linked with the way Turkish workers were treated in this country. No one gave a damn about them until Deputy Higgins spoke out on the issue. It is also related to the way that Filipino workers are treated like slaves and minions. Each of these is a form of economic exploitation and I am 100% against them.

I am concerned about the issue of criminalisation. I do not sympathise, but I am concerned about the idea of naming and shaming. The House is constantly discussing the issue of suicide. A married man or another person who engaged a prostitute, which is a reprehensible and immoral practice, would be named and shamed, but what about the impact on that person's family? This is a complex and difficult issue. I watched with great sadness a film at the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, ICCL, film festival where I was a judge. As far as I can remember, the film was about a Spanish man who was forced into this situation.

I agree with the Minister and will support the Government's amendment. It takes into account a significant report by the United Nations. More than 15 years ago I spoke at the IPU meeting in Delhi in India. The then ambassador, who was a very gracious woman, gave a dinner party before the meeting and asked if she could be of assistance to us. I told her I was interested in the question of AIDS and asked her to provide a list of the organisations which dealt with AIDS. Of 71 such organisations, only one dealt with gay men and none dealt with sex workers, as they were then known. I raised that issue because I thought it was dynamite. It was driving the whole thing underground. That is still my concern, although I empathise with my colleagues' motivation. For the reasons stated I will be voting with the Government.