Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, to the House. His very presence indicates how he feels about the motion. This has been a good debate on these vile crimes that are perpetrated on the Internet. I commend the motion, proposed by Senator van Turnhout and seconded by Senators O'Donnell, Mac Conghail, McAleese, Mary Ann O'Brien and Zappone. They put together an extremely good motion and Senator Paul Bradford has tabled an amendment.

I very much support the motion and the amendment. The amendment, through a technical process, outlines the Government's position on the points put forward in the motion. I urge Senators not to divide on the motion as the issue does not warrant it. I support the contents of the motion put together by the Independents and the technical information supplied by the Minister and his senior officials, whom I welcome to the House. That shows how seriously the Department is taking this issue.

The area is complex and I attended the meeting of experts last week. I know Senator van Turnhout has been particularly involved in bringing in two experts in the field. I expect that the information given at the seminar in the audiovisual room last week will be made available to the Minister and his Department, or that may have been done already. These experts were very informed in the highly technical end of this business. A startling view expressed by Senator O'Donnell, which I presume is accurate, is that this pornography industry is bigger than the oil industry. It is stark statement about an illicit industry.

Senator van Turnhout mentioned that once an image is put on the Internet, it is there for all time, and somehow or somewhere it can be used by others, exploited and families will have to live with it. Abuse will continue and, as another Senator noted, each time the image is shown, the abuse is committed again. The information given last week was worthwhile, and it was indicated that the casual viewing of pornographic images can result in people who would never intentionally tune into a website doing so. Curiosity can be dangerous and lead to inadvertent involvement.

When sites are reported they can be pulled down but as this is a large worldwide industry, it can be very difficult to control. I know the Department of Justice and Equality, together with the Garda Síochána, has been extremely active in detecting crimes and raiding premises where abuse has taken place. There is follow-up on leads to the source of abuse, as outlined by Senators, with investigation of how this can be prevented. This is crucial as such acts are almost unbelievable in a civilised world. That a child of any age could be allowed to be abused is a First World rather than Third World issue. The ages cited in the briefing document we received last week were extraordinary. The New Testament, in the most extreme statement to be found in the Bible, refers to child abuse. The reaction to the abuse of a child then was not different from the reaction today. The biblical statement makes clear the sense of hurt and damage done by child abuse.

The amendment offers a well worded response to each point in the motion. It is interesting to note that Ireland will soon be in a position to ratify the UN Optional Protocol on the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution and Child Pornography. Issues of this nature are regularly discussed in the 47 member Council of Europe. Having listened to those who briefed us last week and the articulate views expressed by all the Senators who have spoken before me - I also look forward to the Minister's contribution - I am confident that this debate will be of great assistance. Airing these issues in the second House of Parliament is a great use of our time. Many other issues of vital importance, for example, employment and education, are discussed regularly. The Taoiseach's nomination to the Seanad of a number of specialists in the area of children's rights has added to the variety of motions that have come before the House. The expertise of Senators can serve an educational purpose for all of us. It is also useful that information on this debate will be circulated to the media.

The Fianna Fáil Party does not want the House to divide on the motion or the amendment. For this reason, I appeal to Senators to unanimously agree to the motion, as amended.