Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)

I thank the Minister of State for coming before the House. I have a great and interesting vision of him riding with Senator O'Donnell along the motorway with a bulldozer. There is merit in that argument. As my colleague, Senator Hayden, pointed out, there will be a need to bulldoze some of the buildings or estates. It is far too simplistic to say that all of them can be matched with homeless people, as the Minister of State knows. If the Minister of State had a euro for every piece of advice he was given about matching empty houses with homeless people since he took the job, he probably would not be sitting here.

I will not add to the advice but I remember during the general election going to an estate in Kinlough, north Leitrim, where many estates were built as it was seen as a nearby place for cheaper housing for people working in Sligo. It is a beautiful corner of the country. I knocked on a door and a young woman who was pregnant and due to give birth on the same day as the election answered, so the canvassing did not go too well. As she looked out from her house there was nothing but an empty field as the estate was not finished; only seven people were living there. This is the same story heard by the Minister of State time and again.

On that day I spoke to somebody who lived in America for some time and told me that in the US the amenities are built first and people are not allowed to build a house until parks and swings are installed and the area is cleaned up. We are now discussing the mess that has been left but we should also take cognisance of the future. Perhaps we could act more practically in future so that we could eliminate all the problems of developers supposedly putting money into safe places to be used to finish estates but in reality running off with the funding. Every future plan should learn from this.

With regard to Kinlough, I draw attention to the fact that Leitrim, one of the most beautiful counties in Ireland, has the most ghost estates per head of population. I am sure the Minister of State is more than well aware of that figure and knows the source of it. Unfortunately, we are not making it up. I doubt there was a house built recently in the counties of Sligo, Longford, Roscommon and Cavan not involved with the upper Shannon renewal scheme and with tax relief. Those counties were exploited in that way, and such places now face particular levels of emigration. They are the locations where people flocked to work, mainly in the construction industry.

If we can consider piloting housing projects, we should examine the case in Leitrim. Even in the so-called good years there was higher unemployment in that county and fewer people received third level education. More young men were reliant on one industry than another and there was a greater ageing community. The county did not benefit in the way other counties did from the so-called boom, and now the people find themselves as inheritors of more ghost estates. It is a cruel irony that has occurred in the area.

The people were given promise by the upper Shannon renewal scheme, which was a great idea to bring prosperity to those counties. It was a fine idea but it has not worked. In the destruction of Leitrim and other counties, we find ourselves with almost empty counties, so what can be offered in their place? We certainly do not want any more schemes with a monetary or tax-relief basis. I echo Senator Ó Murchú's comments on joined-up thinking and the need to think creatively. We must be thinking about the legacy for that county and extend such work.

We need active re-engagement with the community to gauge strengths, which would require the recognition that the housing issue is not just the problem of empty houses but it is the underpinning of our society, in effect. We see this concept mostly in a place like Leitrim. It has great strengths in agriculture, food and tourism, with all surveys showing a very high level of the community involved in caring and volunteering activities there. Surely we can build on that through a social innovation centre that could be linked to the institute of technology in Sligo. There are strong links between Leitrim and places across the county bounds. The co-operation between Sligo Institute of Technology and South West College in Enniskillen presents opportunities for Leitrim. Some possible creative solutions for rebuilding these developments or making them safe have been hurled at the Minister of State in the months since he took up his post. There is a need to ensure the specific communities that have been abandoned are reactivated by other Departments. The Minister of State needs to contact those Departments and join the dots along the line. He should remind the Departments of the poor legacy these communities have inherited and ensure they are at the top of the heap when decisions on regenerating rural communities are made.

I will always remember the woman in Kinlough. She moved there with the aim of bringing up her family in a community. Instead, she is looking at empty field from an estate with about four people living in it. That woman and others will be abandoned unless we find ways of helping to rebuild these communities. There may be some merit in looking creatively at the JobBridge scheme for interns. I welcome the scheme and the policing of it that we have seen in recent days. I do not know whether there is merit in extending it specifically to cater for those interested in ways of doing up houses, as suggested by Senator Ó Murchú. Perhaps we can put in place a scheme for a year or two to employ people who are looking to learn and improve their skills and thereby deal with some of the safer and better houses. We are not talking about the houses that will be bulldozed by Senator O'Donnell as she goes down the motorway.

Senator Cullinane and his Sinn Féin colleagues are not the only people who are outraged by the fact that we are unable to give as much money as we would like back to these communities. I do not doubt that the Minister of State has scoured the pockets and the seams to see how much money can be provided for the restoration of houses. The idea that this Government somehow prefers to give the money to the banks is quite ridiculous. Not a single person in this room or in the Government enjoys having to give money to the banks when it is needed by other people. The Senator is not in sole possession of that kind of outrage. We are all concerned. The Government will do its best to try to find ways of dealing with the challenges that have been created. I thank the Minister of State for his efforts to date. We look forward to seeing him in the House again.