Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

It is an interesting process to be in. It is worse, however, when watered-down or inadequate versions of the same thing arise, so that it takes two or three goes to reach what one had argued for, as has happened.

I take the political point that Senator Byrne is entitled to make concerning the financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation. I do not embrace it with enthusiasm but do so out of necessity right now. As the Senator knows, the legislation itself requires an annual review which will be presented to the Houses. We will examine it, however, and I hope to tweak it at least in the context of next year's budget. I argued outside Government - and this is a matter primarily for my colleague the Minister for Finance - that if we can examine the impact it has on the lowest income earners and lessen or ameliorate the impact on them, it would be a good thing. That is something for the future, however. As I said, I do not rejoice in the legislation or embrace it, but I regard it as an important component of the financing of the State.

I want to deal specifically with the amendment before us because it is an important one which concerns outsourcing. I need to say something about the comprehensive review on expenditure that I have undertaken. It is fresh in my mind because I have just come from a meeting of the Croke Park agreement's implementation committee. There is a genuine engagement with both management and the union side in the public service. There is an understanding of the dreadful hole we are in and what needs to be done to break out of that. The whole idea of the comprehensive review of expenditure is not to think in the old-fashioned way. With all due respect to Senator Byrne, I am afraid he is reflecting old thinking here - that one must cut social welfare across the board. We need to do things differently. That is why the letter referred to by the Senator, and which appeared in the media this week, asked people to think fundamentally outside the box. All ideas should be put on the table and let us decide on them. I will not ideologically exclude anything from consideration.