David Norris (Independent)

I welcome the Minister. This is an area to which he is deeply committed. I am a little bit surprised that there will be a vote on this. It does not seem to me that the two positions are irreconcilable. The first section of the Fine Gael motion, which I support and which I strongly compliment my colleagues on having tabled and argued so capably, simply recognises the difficulties we are in, lists certain factual matters which have been accepted on both sides of the House, such as the extraordinary figure that 43% of drinking water disappears in unidentified leaks, which is astonishing, and refers to the situation in recent weeks. It then goes on to propose a single publicly owned water utilities company.

I strongly support that. I have the greatest respect and affection for my good friend, Senator Glynn, but there is nothing there that suggests anything remotely like a privatisation. It is a nationally owned public utility and so it should be. Water is one of the four elements, earth, air, fire and water. As such, it needs to be managed nationally because it is a national resource. We have shown ourselves to be incapable of doing so, in terms of Government and local authorities, although they have done a fair amount of work in recent years. As citizens we are irresponsible in the way we treat our water resources, a point to which I will return.

The Government amendment proposes to delete all the words after "Seanad Éireann" as usual and states what it is spending money on. It is incontrovertible; they are facts. Most interestingly, the Government refers to the proposals in the national recovery plan which was published in November to commence a programme of national domestic metering to be funded by the National Pensions Reserve Fund and establish an independent regulator for the water sector. I hope it does that.

It also states it "notes the Government's intention shortly to commence an assessment of the need for a national water authority which will consider, inter alia, the role of such an authority, the costs and benefits of establishing it and its relationship with ... local authorities". In other words, it proposes something very close to a utility company.

I know that to some extent the Minister is on planet Bertie - I heard the quote recently on the radio - but a timescale is involved. We know he will be gone in three months at the absolute maximum. It is not the time to consider this, that or the other or for establishing a think tank. It is time to come to some degree of harmonious agreement and that is why I suggest we try to avoid a vote and, if necessary, to have some negotiations between the two sides. If there are any objectionable elements, they should be taken out. Let us push forward with a positive situation regarding water.

There is a political element to this issue. The infrastructure is bad. Some of it is not just Victorian; it is Georgian. The pipes are not just iron. Some of them are wooden in some sections of Dublin or were until recently. One of the problems is that the public does not appreciate that it is getting water. I have made myself unpopular in saying this. I have always supported water charges but they must be proper and fair and related to the amount of water used.

The abolition of domestic water charges in Ireland goes back to 1996. It happened because there was a possibility of a Government seat being targeted by an anti-water charges candidate and it collapsed and gave in. That is the political element of the issue. Of course, unfairness was involved because water was not metered and there was no relationship between how much one used and how much one paid. One should pay for what one uses. I feel the same about bin charges and so on. The bill for water charges was infrequent and came in one big lump, very often at a time when families had to pay school fees and all the rest. The method of billing is important. It should certainly be looked at. I understood the Minister was examining the question of water metering. He said quite recently that he was considering the installation of water meters in 1.1 million homes. That is important. As I understand it, he is looking for funding from the National Treasury Management Agency or another similar body. It has also been suggested that there is a possibility that representatives of some big company - possibly Siemens - will come in on it. Is that right?