Brendan Ryan (Labour)

With the Acting Chairman's considerable defensive skill assisting me, the point I wish to make is that the argument that somehow society in the 1950s was at best equally and perhaps slightly more culpable because these poor institutions or religious orders were invited in to do the job the State would not do is a complete travesty of the situation at the time. They insisted on total control and they got it. We did not have boards of management of primary schools because the parish priests wanted a total monopoly until less than 20 years ago. That is the situation. That is why I have no patience with the argument that the State's share of this burden reflects the position.