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Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: Regarding amendment No. 4, I can ask the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel, OPC, to look at it. I have no problem doing that. I do not know if it is going to make a huge difference, but I am happy to get the OPC to look at it to see if it would be okay to put in the types of funds invested in. Is that okay?

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: If a person has a PRSA and it is not deducted through payroll, he or she is automatically put into the AE system, because this is a payroll deduction. AE comes from payroll deduction. We feel that the wording of this section is important. It states that the first standard would be drawn up from a date no later than "the beginning of years 7 to 9." That means that the standard for...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I am not.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I understand.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: No. If a person is in a PRSA, the majority of PRSAs are not done through payroll deduction. That means that a person has that pension himself or herself. However, that person can also have an automatic enrolment as well. They can go into AE because it is based on payroll deduction. If there is no payroll deduction for any other pension, that person can have AE.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: No.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: However, the person can stop paying the PRSA through payroll and then qualify for AE.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: No. Auto-enrolment is available from day one. Nobody is going to lose out. There is very little in this and what we are talking about because if we substitute years 7 to 9 with 4 to 6, we would have to calculate to the end of year 3 and, therefore, the employees will only have had the benefit of 1.5%. It will not have moved on to the next step. That is why I am saying the end of year 6...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I thank the Deputy. Pension adequacy is an important objective of auto-enrolment. In order to ensure this is achieved, it is vital that participation and retention rates in auto-enrolment remain high. Having a mandatory participation period will help greatly with this. If somebody had given me the choice between more money in my pocket or a pension back when I started to work, I would have...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I thank the Chair for the opportunity to respond because I need to clear up some issues. I asked the same questions that each of the Deputies did when I went through this in detail. Although it seemed like a fit, when you look into it and consider it carefully, we are setting up a new, separate State body that will manage and take participants' money and it will be solely dedicated to...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: It is fair to say that NAERSA will collect all of the contributions from employer, employee and State top-ups. It will have it. The investment managers will only have one account. There will not be individual accounts. It will all be managed through NAERSA. The point I wish to make is that there are economies of scale there because we are pooling all of the contributions. There will be...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I will discuss amendments Nos. 13 to 15, inclusive, together but propose different approaches to them. I do not propose to accept amendment No. 13. I note this section provides for the establishment of investment funds with various levels of risk into which participants' contributions will be placed. Each of these investment funds will have environmental, social and governance, ESG,...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I do not disagree with some of the comments that have been made here in terms of the armaments industry and all of that. However, we have to remember that this is not State money. This is the money of the citizens who contribute through the automatic enrolment process. They also have property rights. This is their pot and their money. I do not propose to take on board these amendments...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: It is not the same.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I do not have all the answers.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I do not want to see anything invested in the armaments industry, no more than do any members of the committee. I must look at this context here, though, from the point of view of the contributions of the citizens of this country. These are contributions. Money, of course, goes into the NTMA. While that is garnered by taxation, the money in this case does not come from taxation. These...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I do.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: Yes.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: I just have concerns that we would be treating, in an inequitable manner, the lower-paid workers who would benefit from auto-enrolment. I would be very concerned about that. As I said, with regard to the word "may", I will be talking to the OPC and I expect to be in a position to change that to "shall". I will leave it at that.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024: Committee Stage (8 May 2024)

Heather Humphreys: We do not need this amendment because it is already in the Bill. The Bill already provides for relevant information sharing arrangements, and these are set out in Part 7. In particular, section 108 provides for a specified body, which includes the Revenue Commissioners, to share with the new authority any information that is necessary and proportionate for the purpose of the performance of...

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