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Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: Given the new policing authority and its autonomy with regard to the management of the Garda Síochána and the Accounting Officer of the Department, who will be before the Committee of Public Accounts? Will it be the policing authority or the Garda Commissioner?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: I have a final question in that vein on the establishment of accounting procedures and voted allocations in the current extensive Vote which very much impacts on the operations of the Garda Síochána. Is it possible to separate the categorisation, identify what impacts where and who is accountable? Has the Department got personnel in the office of the Garda Síochána to...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: Please explain what is meant by "holding to account".

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: Will Mr. Waters be in attendance as well?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: Mr. Waters could have observer status for the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: What are they? I have huge admiration for the job done by the Garda Síochána in these challenging times where the force must deal with a massive change in crimes and sophisticated technology. What are the Department's biggest challenges in terms of its remit and that of the Garda Síochána? There are always issues and problems. People can easily criticise but we must...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: I am glad that the acting Secretary General has raised that point. He will know about the interfacing of technology at the moment and the Courts Service has done a-----

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: -----fantastic job of consolidating services.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: I refer to Mr. Ryan of the Courts Service and the administration of courts, the refit, the new buildings and the capacity to deal with courts. As Mr. Waters has said, 25% of burglars cause 75% of the burglaries. We have heard about tagging but there is a lot simpler method available. Any legal office that is connected to the website of the Law Library can view the whole registry of deeds...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: I wish to comment on that point. I come from a business background so I imagine that when a guy goes into a court one should be able to gain access to every technological base in the world and scan, etc. A court clerk should be able to check whether the gentleman's name is registered and, for example, state whether he is on probation. Such information should be automatically sent to the...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: I am not saying that. People are innocent in terms of the charge presented.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: They are not innocent in terms of charges for which they have been convicted.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: I wish to comment on illicit trade. We have all heard about the trafficking of illegal alcohol, cigarettes and branded goods.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: Such trade is a huge issue in the southern six counties at the moment.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: Illicit trade is a highly profitable business. Branded goods are being sold as originals at stalls and stands. Can the assistant Secretary General explain how such illicit trade is dealt with?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: I have seen an ad running on the TV and radio which says that once the alarm goes off, there will be gardaí at the back door and the front door. The ad is from a certain company, which I will not name. Can Mr. Waters explain to me how that operates, if we are talking about detection of crime and rural crime, if a licensed premises or business is broken into which would have an...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: No, but on the detection of this, which is----

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: Yes. Certainly there are commercial companies for commercial properties. It is often the nature of crime, from watching "Crimewatch", that a lot of these alarms are broken into by professionals.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: No, but I am still making a point.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

John Perry: We are talking about joined up thinking here. Mr. Waters mentioned the involvement of the private service and private companies, and that the whole new approach of the Garda Síochána at the moment involves community. It is about a proprietary interest in businesses.

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