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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Thank you. I invite Mr. Roddy to make his opening statement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I will bring in all four groups. I will bring in the two groups that were specifically asked a question first and then the other two groups. I ask everyone to try not to repeat something that some of the other groups have already responded to. We have four groups and we are trying to manage it. I will bring in the INHFA first, followed by the ICMSA and then the other two farm organisations.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: To clarify, SAC designation and payments are not within the remit of the committee. We do not want to delve into the remit of the agriculture committee. I understand the point Mr. Farrell is making. We could speak on it at length on it but we want to focus on the means test and its treatment by the Department of Social Protection.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Yes and I accept this point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I invite the IFA to respond to the questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I would say to Deputy Ó Laoghaire that farm assist was originally the farmers' dole and there is a social and cultural aspect to this. People are reluctant to apply. It is only when their back is to the wall that they will consider it because it is seen as throwing in the towel in terms of a viable farm enterprise.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Someone's phone is not on silent and it is interfering with the audio. Would everyone make sure that their phones are on silent or, if possible, on aeroplane mode?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Thank you, Deputy Ó Cuív. Does Ms Doyle want to respond to the Deputy's points?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: That is perfect. The floor is yours, Mr. Buckley.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Is anyone opposed to it? I do not think so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I have given Senator Garvey scope here-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: -----but this is on means testing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: We are not dealing with agriculture. As we said it at the start of the meeting-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: -----agriculture is a matter for the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine. The Senator might focus on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: It is nothing to do with means testing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: We can all see that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Yes. I thank Senator Garvey. I gave the Senator an awful lot of scope. I will not be giving the witnesses that scope. I want them to stick to the topic on the agenda. Senator Garvey asked questions on income disregards and whether there is another model. She touched on the issue of depreciation in capital allowances in terms of on-farm investment. Which of the witnesses wants to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Allow Mr. Farrell to continue without interruption, Senator Garvey.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: I am sorry to interrupt, but can Mr. Roddy elaborate on what he means by "a poverty trap"?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Impact of Means Testing on Farm Assist and Other Social Welfare Schemes: Discussion (17 Apr 2024)

Denis Naughten: Ms Doyle wants to come in.

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