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Seanad: Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022: Second Stage (13 Jun 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: That is correct. We will speak for the six minutes each, with the agreement of the Chair and the House.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022: Second Stage (13 Jun 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I welcome the Minister back to this House and to the Houses of the Oireachtas following her maternity leave. I am in favour of hate crime legislation. It is not before time that we are updating the position. However, I have some concerns about the legislation and more so about what is not in the legislation rather than what is. Specifically, I am concerned at the lack of antisemitism...

Seanad: Capital Investment in the Health Service: Statements (1 Jun 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: The Minister is always welcome to the Seanad. I do not know where to begin with his statement because it is so large. Having more than €1 billion in funding available is phenomenal. The Minister also mentioned primary care centres, surgical hubs and the national children's hospital. It is all fantastic work and we are very happy with progress and the amount of money that has been...

Seanad: Capital Investment in the Health Service: Statements (1 Jun 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: On Tuesday, 13 June at 1 p.m.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I second that. I think it is a very sensible proposal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank our witnesses for coming before us and for all the work they have done in producing this report in a very time-sensitive fashion. I thank them and their colleagues. I would like to return to the three-day wait period as referred to by my colleague previously. Ms O’Shea has agreed that there is no medical reason for it and that there is no legal reason for it. Her belief was...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Exactly, and that was the fear. I know Dr. Conlon has spoken to service users. Can she maybe briefly take me through the decision-making process when a woman decides to terminate a pregnancy?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Before they access any medical advice.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: That is a very important point. A reflection period is not a requirement for any other medical procedure that Dr. Conlon knows of. Ms O’Shea referred to the WHO guidelines and I have them here. They find that waiting periods are unnecessary and should not be included in legislation. If I grasp what Ms O’Shea said in her previous response, her fear and the reason she left it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Does Ms O’Shea accept that some people have expressed a view that it is actually stigmatising asking people to reflect on a decision that, as Dr. Conlon has already outlined, women have made by the time they come in to a GP?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Do medical professionals not get informed consent anyway?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: It is not put into any other medical procedure but they have to get that informed consent. Can we trust our doctors to get informed consent without it being specified in the legislation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: So there is no need actually to specifically refer to a reflection period or waiting period within the legislation because informed consent can be obtained.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: As I have very limited time, I want to move on to a few other things. Regarding criminalisation, I welcome the recommendation that doctors would not be prosecuted, but criminalisation still exists. Why did Ms O'Shea leave that in?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: It just felt outside the scope of Ms O'Shea's research. It was not that she is against it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I know that the international trend is towards fully decriminalising.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Therefore, I was wondering why Ms O'Shea did not go that far. It was just that her research did not go beyond it. It is not that she specifically wants to keep that within the legislation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank Ms O'Shea. I want to move on to conscientious objection. Given her research, would Ms O'Shea recommend inserting it into the legislation if she were drafting the legislation now?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Should it be in legislation? The Medical Council Guide to Professional Conduct and Ethics for registered medical practitioners amended the 2019 edition. As section 49 covers conscientious objections, it is already there. Therefore, why have it in the legislation as well?

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