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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Yet it is in the board minutes of 13 March that NAMA would do that and give the information to bidders about the departure of PIMCO if it was necessary. It would have been necessary in this situation.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: ...have adopted. I will go through different elements of the report. On page 63, the report states:The loan sale process undertaken for Project Eagle differed significantly from that undertaken by NAMA for other large loan sales. While the processes adopted for Project Tower and Project Arrow conformed to the standard NAMA sales procedures, the Project Eagle process did not. Does Mr. Long...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Paragraph 4.6 on that page indicates:In October 2013, the Board approved a NAMA executive proposal to explore the possible disposal of the loans of the Project Eagle debtors to PIMCO... The paper presented to the Board for that meeting noted... "...in line with our Board policy... will only be recommending the sale subject to an open marketing process". That was in October 2013 and the board...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: In December 2013, two months later, the report indicates:when the NAMA executive sought Board approval for Project Eagle, it did not recommend an open marketing process. Instead, it sought guidance from the Board as to how to respond to PIMCO’s continuing request that it be granted exclusivity. An objective reading of that, from what I can see, is that in October it was very clear it...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I thank Mr. Long. I will be the judge of that and we will ask the NAMA representatives those questions when they come in. Paragraph 4.10 states:The paper presented by the NAMA executive for the Board meeting on 8 January 2014 proposed a plan that involved the immediate appointment of loan sale advisors. I assume that was Lazard.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: That is contested. That is NAMA-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: That concerns NAMA but I am talking about Mr. Long saying he became aware of it before we knew. We had to tease out the April 2013 date in the minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I am specifically asking about the April 2013 date because the actual issue of a loan sale portfolio was not considered by NAMA until much later.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: He can provide evidence, papers or letters to NAMA based only on the information he has. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: Page 82 states that Lazard, on 2 April, provided a letter to the board of NAMA: "In its professional advisory judgment, given NAMA's objectives, the process had been appropriate ..." The process had become compromised by virtue of Mr. Cushnahan's involvement with Brown Rudnick and Tughans and their transfer from PIMCO to Cerberus. Given that Lazard did not have that information, Mr. Long is...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I am not asking about NAMA. I am asking Mr. Long.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: That is one part of it but Mr. Long was involved in a number of exchanges with NAMA in respect of the letter of assurance sought from Cerberus. That was in connection with the organisation's association with Brown Rudnick and Tughans. At that point, was Mr. Long aware of the conflicts of interest with PIMCO. I refer to the fact that there had been a success fee with Brown Rudnick, Tughans...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: ...of assurance. Had Lazard been advised at that point that Brown Rudnick and Tughans were actually in a relationship with Frank Cushnahan, and that Frank Cushnahan had an association with debtors? NAMA knew this. Why did it not share that information with Lazard? I cannot ask Mr. Long to speak for NAMA but, in his view, the information is valuable information not to have been shared with him.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (22 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: ...his involvement in the process. In terms of paragraph 4.17 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report and the objective of prohibiting contact or association with debtors, the point is that NAMA became aware of an association with debtors and a success fee that involved Mr. Cushnahan. Given the information was not shared with Lazard, the guardian of those objectives, Mr. Long does...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: So PIMCO saw an opportunity, approached NAMA and said it wanted a short and exclusive sales process. Is that Mr. Mulcahy's understanding of how it was conceived?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: ...the law firm Brown Rudnick who then introduced PIMCO to Mr. Ian Coulter of Tughans and Mr. Frank Cushnahan, with whom Brown Rudnick appeared to be working to identify potential purchasers for the NAMA Northern Irish loan portfolio (which later became known as Project Eagle). As we understood it, PIMCO was one of three firms who were approached at the time by these three parties. This was...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: ...that Mr. Cushnahan was a member of the NIAC in April 2013. He was working with Mr. Coulter and Brown Rudnick. PIMCO did not approach them; they approached PIMCO. After that, PIMCO approached NAMA and said it wanted a short and exclusive sales process. PIMCO went on to say the three parties then requested £15 million for the information they brought to PIMCO. It is very relevant....

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: They were made aware when PIMCO approached NAMA and said there was a difficulty. We also have the conference calls.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: I will put the question in a different way. We know NAMA was made aware of conflicts of interest and a success fee between PIMCO and Brown Rudnick, Tughans and Mr. Cushnahan. It was relayed to the board because we had plenty of discussions with other board members and NAMA around conference call minutes and so on, which is in appendix C of the report. The board was made aware that there...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

David Cullinane: .... 55 reads, "Given the joint agreement between the parties to the success fee arrangement with PIMCO, all of the payment – not just the payment to Mr Cushnahan – should have raised concerns for NAMA." The same applies in relation to Cerberus. Mr. Cushnahan had a relationship with Brown Rudnick and Tughans and the Comptroller and Auditor General said that his departure did...

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