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Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: No. I want to stick with this point because it is crucial.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Accumulated, that is a little over 20%. The current structure tells me that there are 7,752 members, with a recommended staffing level of 11,500. How in God's name does the Department expect to recruit approximately 4,000 staff when current staff cannot be retained? Ms McCrum is not a foolish woman - I would not think so, given the position she is in. The efforts regarding current...

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: How many do we have?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: If we have more than that, why was only one available when we needed to tackle a serious drugs issue on our waters? One was available which, I believe, had to be stripped down before it could go on the mission. It had no cover. One chopper was sent out, which made a very risky situation even riskier. How many helicopters are there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Where were the other seven? It is not a trick question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Ms McCrum is the Secretary General of the Department. I asked a simple question. It is not the first time it has been asked. Why was there no cover for the personnel who risked life and limb to go out and do that mission last year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: They may have been in service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I would say they had no choice if many of the others were dismantled for maintenance, which we no longer do because we cannot recruit the staff or retain the ones we have. Is that a fair assessment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Ms McCrum does not think it is. How much do we spend outsourcing it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I did not ask any questions. I asked where the seven helicopters were and Ms McCrum was not able to tell me. I asked how much we spend on outsourcing maintenance for those helicopters.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: What was it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I will come back to that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I will come back to that. Will Ms McCrum answer the question on how much is spent on maintenance outsourcing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: That is outsourced.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I asked about outsourced maintenance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: It is very important. Are we dependent on outsourced maintenance and that keeps our helicopters on the ground? Effectively, that runs the risk of life and limb of the personnel doing the job so badly required of controlling our waters from a drugs perspective. That particular incident yielded more than €6 million worth of drugs - it was actually €600 million, if I am not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Recently? Every year at budget time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: What has it yielded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Please do.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Please give us a breakdown of how many of the 8,000 applications transpired into work, jobs and employment.

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