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Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: We have given a commitment in that regard, which remains.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: I accept that the question of medical insurance is always a difficult one, but as things are always twisted for twisted political purposes, I will quote what the Minister for Finance said in his Budget Statement.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: That phrase was used, but, of course, there was a context to it, which I am sure the Minister will outline tomorrow when he is here. He said in his Budget Statement: "This will restrict the exposure of the Exchequer in relation to premiums paid for "gold plated" medical insurance policies [the Senator needs to concentrate on the next bit] while not affecting the majority of individuals who...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: I am helped by the fact that I am in possession of the facts, unlike the Senator.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: The Revenue figures provide the information, as opposed to the commentary from elements of the commentariat which might find its way here. Revenue estimates that 577,000 policyholders avail of the existing tax credit for medical insurance. Of these, 43% will see absolutely no change, while, as the Minister pointed out, for the great majority - 53% - who could potentially see a change there...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: I have indicated what he said.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: As others have pointed out, this is tax forgone. The total tax liability is about €400 million. If matters went unchecked, it could be €1 billion by 2020. Having regard to the position of the public finances, the State has to taper the tax credit in a fair way and we have done on our best in a difficult decision that had to be made. Senators Michael D'Arcy, Darragh O'Brien...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: Absolutely. I agree. Fianna Fáil is good for something at last. I very much challenge the notion of progressivity. Our system of taxation has become much more progressive and fairer. One of the reasons I was looking at my iPad and phone was to source material. I was not being ungracious and I was listening avidly as I always do. Last year Senator Reilly stated she was against the...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: I searched in the Sinn Féin pre-budget submission but did not find the €350 million. I apologise for honing in on Senator Reilly-----

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: -----but I am rehearsing a speech I suspect she will hear again. She also stated, if I am not incorrect, she was fundamentally against the increase in VAT from 21% to 23% which brought in €650 million, and I took her at face value. Was this changed in the most recent pre-budget submission? It was not. This is a Sinn Féin legacy issue which it needs to sort out between now and...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: This is as much about Sinn Féin as it is about the Government. If Sinn Féin claims it will reinstate child benefit and VAT the numbers must add up but they do not. With the greatest respect, I contend Senator Reilly's party is all over the place when it comes to pre-budget submissions. That is the political rant over with and I will move on to other issues.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: The former BBC economics correspondent, Stephanie Flanders, has returned to the capital markets and I suspect she is making a good deal more money than she did previously. She wrote a very interesting piece in the Financial Times last week which is worth highlighting, in particular for politicians. She made the point when we entered the crisis in 2008 or 2009 politicians underestimated the...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: That is why we are speaking about it. Senator O'Brien also raised the question of the pension fund levy. We are utterly consistent about this.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: I will explain to the Senator. In the pre-budget submission we made in the Shelbourne Hotel in December 2010 before we came to government, which I remember very well because I was one of the parties responsible for writing it, we made a clear and absolute commitment to introduce the levy because we knew to be credible as an incoming government we had to state where we would get the money for...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: -----but they will not tell us how they will pay for it.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: One must be credible.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: The Minister, Deputy Noonan, has made a commitment.

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: It is not the same levy as the Senator well knows. It is an increase of 0.6%

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: I thank all the Senators who have contributed to Second Stage of the Finance (No. 2) Bill. We greatly appreciate that contribution. It was a very worthwhile debate in allowing us to survey where we are in terms of the general economic picture and to tease out some of the ideas the Ministers, Deputies Noonan and Howlin, have advanced as part of the budget. To answer my good colleague...

Seanad: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Second Stage (11 Dec 2013)

Brian Hayes: There is a total disconnect between what people believe about people with wealth and what they pay. That is why it is very important to emphasise that 60% of the total income tax paid in this country is paid by the top 10% of income earners. I keep repeating this. This may not help Sinn Féin because once the truth on this is known there will be difficulties with its tax proposals.

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