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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: That is obviously a matter of concern.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: For military use.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Yes, computer chips and software.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: This is not a problem for Mr. Downes, but I do not draw that distinction. To my mind, as has been alluded to, the entire Israeli state has been characterised as an apartheid regime engaged in illegal occupation, and is imposing a siege on Gaza that by any definition is in breach of international law. Some of us would be of the view that there should be complete shutting off of all trade...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: On commercial sensitivity, how far does that extend? At one point Mr. Downes mentioned seven Israeli companies. What was that a reference to? In his opening remarks he said something about seven Israeli companies.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It would be great if Mr. Downes could. Is that possible?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: That would be fantastic.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Does Mr. Hughes know what supports they get from the IDA?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I ask Mr. Hughes to give us all of the information he can in as much detail as possible.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I thank Mr Hughes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Okay. To what extent would the IDA be required to look at what those companies do to determine whether there are any connections with, for example, the Israeli military or they had any involvement in the siege of Gaza, occupied territories, illegal settlements or any activities that might be likely to breach national law, human rights and so on? Can the officials tell us anything about that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Does Mr. Hughes mean not checking-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I see what Mr. Hughes means. In terms of monitoring the possible involvement of some of these companies with the Israeli military, for example, would we know? Would we be concerned? Would it be monitored? Would it be gauged against our commitments to human rights and international law, for example?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Mr. Hughes is more or less saying that it is up to the Government. Beyond changes in Government policy - I know my policy would be that we should not support these companies and should instead break absolutely all links with them - are there objective criteria of any description when it comes to monitoring whether these companies might be working with agencies in Israel that are guilty of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Okay. I want to be clear about the Euromed agreement. Is that the sole basis on which Israel gets favoured trade status into the European Union?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Okay. Are we prohibited from ending our support for or participation in that agreement and saying that we no longer want to participate in the agreement because it gives favoured trade status to a state we believe is guilty of apartheid, genocide or human rights abuses? Can Ireland simply withdraw from that agreement and, therefore, decide its own path in respect of trade?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: In other areas, we have opted out of certain things. Is there anything to stop us seeking an opt-out?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Okay. It would certainly be high politics. Mr. Downes's understanding is that we cannot opt out. I would love to know if that is absolutely definitive and whether there is no possibility of us being able to opt out of the agreement. If Mr. Downes is happy to say that is definitively the case, then I take his word for it. This is very important, however, and if we have that capacity or...

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