Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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12. To ask the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht given that she has previously expressed a preference for direct Exchequer funding to replace the television licence, if she can provide an update on any correspondence, communications or meetings she has had with her Government colleagues in this regard; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [6921/24]

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am asking this question on behalf of Deputy Munster who is dealing with a constituency matter. The Minister previously expressed a preference for direct Exchequer funding to replace the television licence. Will she provide an update on any correspondence, communications or meetings she has had with Government colleagues in this regard and will she make a statement on the matter? The public wants to see clarity on how this can be operated in the future.

Catherine Martin (Dublin Rathdown, Green Party)
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Public service media is critical to our society, our distinct culture and language and our democracy. It requires and deserves a stable and sustainable funding model. I am strongly committed to securing a Government decision in that regard no later than the summer.

There are a number of options through which this aim can be delivered. It should be noted that I have not stated that direct Exchequer funding is the only way to do it. What I have said is that, given the impact the RTÉ controversy has had on TV licence revenue, further consideration of the Exchequer option is warranted. I have heard people raise concerns with regard to the potential risk of political interference in funding for public service media through the direct Exchequer funding model. However, this risk exists in all models, including the current model with respect to setting the level of the licence fee, or any household charge where, again, the level of charge would be set at political level. The challenge is to safeguard against these risks and the Future of Media Commission has set out such safeguards. These include funding levels being established and recommended by the independent regulator, Coimisiún na Meán, and limited scope for the Government to reject recommended funding levels were the direct Exchequer model to be decided on.

The real goal is to deliver a funding model for public service media that provides sufficient and stable funding, not only for our public service broadcasters, but also for the wider broadcasting and independent production sectors which are currently supported through the sound and vision scheme. It will also support print and online media delivering public service content through the new media fund. Coimisiún na Meán is currently developing the first schemes in that regard in respect of local democracy and court reporting. In order to achieve these aims, a number of potential options should be considered.

As I have stated on numerous occasions, high-level discussions on the report produced by the technical working group on TV licence reform are taking place, but a final decision will not be taken until after the reports of the two independent expert advisory committees are received. In advance of the matter being considered by the Government, it would not be appropriate for me to disclose either the options put forward by the technical working group or the discussions that are continuing with relevant Cabinet colleagues. However, the Government is absolutely committed to bringing forward a new funding model.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister stated that a decision will be taken in the summer on how we will fund RTÉ and others. We all realise the spectacular work that was done, especially during the Covid-19 period, by some of our local radio stations and other local media. It is a matter of ensuring we have public sector media in this age of disinformation. It goes without saying, given what has come into the public domain in recent days, that there are still huge issues in accountability at RTÉ. The public has made a determination on that.

I accept what the Minister said about awaiting these reports, but to a degree that will not change anything. We all have the information. We know the various means available. The Minister already answered one of the questions. We are talking about direct Exchequer funding. It is possible, using Coimisiún na Meán or many other means, to ensure there is no political interference in funding for the media.

The Minister referred to the summer. Is she talking about the beginning or the end of the summer? The sooner we can bring clarity the better.

Catherine Martin (Dublin Rathdown, Green Party)
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As I said earlier in the week in this Chamber, it will be before the summer, but the sooner the better as far as I am concerned. However, as the Deputy pointed out, the controversy has pointed to the fact that reform needs to go hand in glove with the decision on the funding model. That is why I am waiting for the two expert committee reports on culture and governance and on HR matters. They are the only reports commissioned by the Government and the only reports, since this controversy emerged at the end of June, that will make recommendations. I need to see the recommendations and I need to see commitment that they will be implemented. We will then move as swiftly as possible, with the support of my colleagues at Cabinet who want the decision on the funding model to be made quickly. Two of the key options are the Exchequer funding model and the household charge model, as the Taoiseach said.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The decision will be taken before the summer, but we are awaiting the two expert reports. Does the Minister have any notion of the timeline for that? Does it mean that no conversations or communications are taking place at Government level about a decision? Many of us believe there is enough information in the public domain to make the decision.

I welcome the Minister's statement that clarity has to be brought on this matter. This needs to be brought to an end as soon as possible. Sinn Féin has been clear this week that the only means of moving ahead is through direct Exchequer funding and that in our view the necessary protections to avoid political interference can definitely be provided. We all know the absolute necessity of public sector broadcasting. This has been a terrible time for those who work in RTÉ. It has led to huge anger about the lack of governance and disgraceful behaviour at certain times. This needs to be dealt with as soon as possible and as quickly as we can. It is as straightforward as that.

Catherine Martin (Dublin Rathdown, Green Party)
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Absolutely. I emphasise-----

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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We will take a supplementary question. My apologies, Minister.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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To follow on from my colleague, the Minister spoke about the reform aspect and waiting for the two Government reports. People are sceptical about that because the Future of Media Commission was commissioned and brought a report out before any of these scandals. That report should be taken on its own merits. People fear that the Government is kicking it down the road until after the local and European elections. From what we can gather, Fianna Fáil, and perhaps Fine Gael, want to bring in a new household charge. That would be vehemently opposed by ordinary hardworking people who have enough of more taxes being imposed on them. From what we can gather, the Green Party supports the same model as Sinn Féin, direct Exchequer funding, but it is not being allowed to proceed with it by the other Government parties. Will the Minister make a commitment that a decision will be taken before the local and European elections? Otherwise, we will conclude that the Government is playing politics with RTÉ. The revelations yesterday were astounding. People got €450,000 on their way out the door and we have to pay the tax liability on it. The total figure could be as high as €600,000.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The need for radical reform in RTÉ is obvious from the €450,000 paid to the former financial officer. It is shocking on top of all the revelations about obscene salaries. We need to get to the root of why this stuff happened. Part of the reason was that RTÉ moved away from a public service remit and became too embroiled in advertising and commercial considerations. Then all the executives thought they had to be paid the same as those who work in the corporate sector, abandoning their public service remit. To resolve the matter, we need, as well as reform at the top, direct Exchequer funding that is not reliant on commercial sponsorship. How do we pay for that? We have been arguing for months that a tax should be put on the profits of social media companies. This could easily fund RTÉ through direct Exchequer funding. It would give us additional money for public service broadcasting. The ordinary workers, including crew and others, should not pay the price - nor should the public in terms of the quality of public service broadcasting - for the crimes of a few at the top of RTÉ.

Catherine Martin (Dublin Rathdown, Green Party)
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A number of issues were raised. The Government is clear in its commitment to the reform of the TV licence. I said in recent weeks that I am certainly not fearful of making that decision ahead of the European elections. What is of paramount importance is that a decision is made. I respectfully suggest that it is certainly not Government parties that are playing politics with RTÉ. Of course there will be different views. It is certainly not the case that our coalition partners are not allowing the Green Party to do this.

With the greatest respect, this is grown-up politics. We are a coalition, we are working together and we are committed to making this decision. Of course there will be different views and this is what we are teasing out at the minute. This to be expected of an-----

Catherine Martin (Dublin Rathdown, Green Party)
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With the greatest respect, I did not speak over Deputy Gould. This is to be expected with an issue of such importance. It is to be welcomed that these different views are expressed and teased out to ensure we get to the right decision. I am not afraid. I am the Minister with responsibility for media and I will take this decision and make a recommendation to the Government. There is no fear of local and European elections. What I am concerned with is the future of public service media being put on a sure footing. That is my focus, not the politics involved or being fearful of elections. We need to deliver a message regarding how we value public service media and the only way to do that is to deliver the decision on the future funding model.