Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Mar is eol don Aire, baineann scéal fada leis na daoine óga a bhí tráth sna scoileanna cónaithe, leis an bhforéigean a rinneadh orthu, leis an obair gan rogha a bhí ann, leis an saol deacair a bhí ann agus leis an dualgas atá ar an Stát feabhas a chur ar a gcuid coinníollacha sa lá atá inniu ann.

The Minister is familiar with the long history of trying to address the abuse, forced labour and difficult life circumstances of the residents of residential institutions. The State has, to a greater or lesser extent, been trying to get to grips with this for many years. The issue that particularly concerns me is the follow on from Caranua, and the lack of action that has taken place in the past short few years. We know that what was first the Residential Institutions Statutory Fund was set up in 2012, and was later renamed Caranua on foot of, if I recall correctly, some of the draft recommendations of the Ryan report being worked on at the time.

The context of this, of course, is that many tens of thousands of children in residential institutions were subject to the most horrific abuse. Their childhoods were effectively stolen from them. Relationships with family were sundered, and in many instances they were forced to undertake significant labour. This left many of those children and survivors, many of whom have unfortunately passed away, in circumstances of hardship, emotional trauma, poverty and ill health. That is the legacy many of these institutions have left. A number of difficulties have flowed from that. Many survivors were dissatisfied with the way Caranua has carried out its business. They felt badly let down and even re-traumatised in some instances, with claims being closed where there was no real basis for closing.

However, the part I want to focus on is the fact that after Caranua was wound down, there was supposed to be a follow on. A group of survivors met with a group of facilitators appointed by the Minister's Department late in 2019 and came up with a number of recommendations. Those recommendations centred around fundamental things such as enhanced medical care or an enhanced medical card, housing entitlements, or a pension, as was the case with the survivors of the Magdalen institutions. Those proposals were submitted late in 2019, which is now more than three years ago. I understand there was one further meeting in late 2020, which the Minister was part of, but there has been nothing since then. They feel badly let down. They feel they are in the dark. I have raised with this with the Minister a number of times and she has informed me there is work going on behind the scenes. However, as far as they are concerned, nothing is happening, and time is not immaterial here. Most of these are older people, some of them are in very poor health, and of course they are worried. As time goes on more and more survivors will pass on and will not be in a position to benefit from any proposals that need to be brought forward.

The vacuum, which is there at the moment, is completely unacceptable. They feel very hurt by some of the issues that arose out of Caranua, and how that was handled. That has been catalogued and reported, but they feel hurt now by the lack of progress, and the lack of feedback they are getting.

I have a final point before I allow the Minister to respond. There is a particular category I will flag, namely, those survivors now living in Britain and elsewhere who feel completely out of the loop. What is the state of play and when are we going to finally get some feedback from those recommendations?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Tuigim féin agus an Roinn Oideachais cé chomh tábhachtach is atá an cheist seo. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach. Tá an-chuid oibre déanta go dtí an pointe seo agus táim buíoch den Teachta as an seans é sin a chur os comhair an Teach seo.

I thank the Deputy and I want to acknowledge his personal engagement and interest in this, and I am fully cognisant of the importance of the body of work ongoing in relation to this. I want to say very clearly at the outset that the views of survivors of institutional abuse must be, and are, central when considering future supports and services to meet their needs. For that reason, as the Deputy will be aware, the Department of Education has been engaged in a structured process of consultation with survivors and survivor groups over a number of years, as he has outlined. This process began with the engagement by the Department of professionally qualified facilitators to undertake a series of consultations with survivors on the themes and issues of most specific concern to them.

The facilitators engaged with more than 100 people and held more than 30 meetings. These meetings enabled survivors to reflect on their experiences, the State's response to the issue of institutional abuse and to make any recommendations they might wish to make. This phase of the process resulted in the submission to the Department of Education of a report entitled Consultations with Survivors of Institutional Abuse and Themes and Issues to be Addressed by a Survivor Led Consultation Group. The report identified a number of priority issues for survivors, including the health needs of an aging population and the need to make services easier to access.

Phase 2 of the process involved the establishment of a survivor-led consultative forum to further consider the themes and issues identified. This was again supported by facilitators who were engaged by the Department of Education. A method the Deputy outlined was for the forum to personally engage with survivors in Ireland, and indeed in the United Kingdom, and to hear directly from them. Officials from my Department have also met with the forum on a number of occasions to discuss its work. I would like to acknowledge the commitment and insight of the survivors who have participated in the consultation process, as well as the support and significant expertise provided by the facilitators involved in the process.

The final report of the forum was submitted to the Department last year. The report has provided a very good insight into the areas where survivors feel that supports are required into the future. As the Deputy will be aware, there are also a number of other published reports highlighting the ongoing needs of survivors and the lifelong difficulties they encounter due to their childhood experiences in residential care. These reports, alongside other relevant submissions, are currently being considered by the Department with input from colleagues from other Departments. Significant resources continue to be devoted to the progressing of this work and will feed into the consideration of proposals to Government in this context.

In parallel with this process, the Department has also been engaging with officials from other relevant Departments to identify existing services which are of particular relevance to survivors and to examine how these services can support survivors into the future. This engagement is also feeding into consideration of proposals to Government which will be progressed in the shortest timeframe possible.

I would also like to note that as part of the State's response to individual's experience of stress as a result of trauma and abuse in childhood, a free professional and confidential national counselling service is operated by the HSE. Full details of this are available on the HSE's website.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister. Before I continue I want to clarify something. The response may have been drafted late last year given that this Topical Issue matter was to be taken last year, which is fair enough, and it might just be an error. The response states that the consultative forum's report was submitted late last year. I would say that should state "in late 2021" because I have a parliamentary question from my colleague, Deputy Paul Murphy, and the response to that written question, which was given in December 2022, suggests the document was submitted "last year". Will the Minister clarify this? Was it submitted in 2021 or 2022? I suspect it was 2021. Obviously, there is a huge difference. If it was late 2022, it could only be a few weeks ago and we could all understand the delay. However, in reality, I think it is almost 13 months since that report was submitted. If the Minister has the information to hand, I would appreciate if she could clarify this.

The response I have received here does not give me a whole lot of new information. These are all ongoing processes but survivors listening in and reading back on this afterwards will be wondering about the timeline and when are things actually going to happen. I have no indication of that here and this is what people need. As I already very clearly outlined, many of these people are older, many are in poor health and some of them are in very poor housing conditions. Some of them are suffering very severe hardship even to this day, despite the efforts of organisations in the past. Counselling and so on is all well and good but that is to do with their trauma and their emotional well-being, and it is important that those supports are there, but these people have material needs as well that have not been fully addressed. The pension, which was provided to the Magdalen laundries survivors, is a huge issue for them. It would provide stability and a decent standard of income in their final years as well as housing and enhanced health care as was provided in those other instances. What is timeline and when was that report submitted?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will be absolutely honest and say that I am very aware of Deputy Ó Laoghaire's personal engagement in relation to this matter. I will not lead the Deputy astray regarding the date. I will check it and get back to the Deputy today with the information. I want to reiterate that I am very cognisant of and I fully understand the importance of the view of the survivors being at the heart of what we are seeking to achieve here. I want acknowledge that the report of the consultative board, which was a very significant body of work, has been funded by the Department and externally facilitated. The fact that it was externally facilitated is hugely important. There was an independent facilitation of the entire process. Along with other relevant reports and submissions, it is under active consideration by the Department with input from other relevant Departments. Deputy Ó Laoghaire outlined the variety of areas of interest of survivors and he will recognise that they are cross-departmental. We are engaged in a significant body of work. In terms of the body of work and the reports provided, I want to acknowledge that it has been valuable because it is these reports and submissions that are providing an insight into the issues which the survivors have nominated as being of most importance. The Department will continue to work with other Departments in many of the areas the Deputy highlighted, particularly in relation to areas of health and all the different issues that have been raised and were worked through in other instances. It is a significant body of work and it is continuing.

I appreciate that we need the quickest resolution possible to this and I appreciate the urgency. It will be in the shortest timeframe possible. I am happy to keep the Deputy updated in that regard. A significant cross-departmental approach is being taken. In terms of resources, there are other agencies involved, aside from the Department of Education, and we are moving that work ahead as quickly as we can.