Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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The Technical Group will be first to speak.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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I wish to share time with Deputies Richard Boyd Barrett, Stephen Donnelly, Mick Wallace and Finian McGrath.

When we heard that there was to be a review of the travel pass scheme for those over 66 years, we, Age Action Ireland and many organisations representing our elderly, went quite rightly on the offensive. We have seen the record of the Government on other services which have been cut. For example, five years ago, the Labour Party was with Age Action to support thousands of elderly people protesting against the medical card cut for the over-70s. However, the party has introduced in the past three years a cut by stealth whereby a single person's maximum gross income in respect of medical card eligibility is €500. We find many old-age pensioners on a State pension and a small private work pension are now having their over-70s medical card cut off by stealth where they are €10, €20 or €30 over the threshold. Age Action and other groups have quite rightly gone on the offensive.

Last night, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, said she wanted to say loudly and clearly that the Government has protected the free travel scheme for beneficiaries in all of its budgets to date and will continue to do so. I want some definite responses for those in receipt of the travel pass and those who will be in receipt of it in future to confirm that there will be no restrictions on the hours during which the pass may be used, no subscription charges, no restriction to a particular mode of transport and that the travel pass will continue as is. I want to hear that from the Government tonight so that Age Action and our elderly can feel confident they will have the travel pass into the future.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is absolutely right to ring the alarm bells that there is a real and serious threat to the free travel pass given the review of the scheme, talk of there not being enough money to meet increased demand and cuts in the subsidies to Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. Aside from all that, when the Government says it has completely protected the free travel scheme to date, even that is not true. Free travel passes are already being taken away from people wherever routes have been outsourced, including national routes and those in Dublin.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear. It is a good point.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Operators in Cavan, Longford and other areas have stated recently that they cannot afford to run the free travel pass scheme and have withdrawn from it. The Government is planning to outsource 10% of the orbital routes in Dublin. It is already clear from the evidence coming in from private operators who were able to provide a free travel scheme that they cannot now afford to do it. This is exactly what will happen when the orbital routes are implemented. My area will be particularly badly hit with the outsourcing of the 59, 65, 75 and 111 routes to private companies which will not be able to afford to run the free travel pass scheme unless the Government gives a commitment. Such a commitment has clearly not been given to date as some of the private operators are already pulling out of the scheme. They say a cast-iron condition for the outsourcing of routes will be a requirement that tenderers operate the free travel pass scheme. I bet the Government will not demand that. If it does not, it is the stealth removal of the free travel scheme.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Independent)
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Last week, I submitted a parliamentary question to the Tánaiste, Deputy Joan Burton, seeking assurances that the free travel scheme would continue as is. She stated that she had no plans to limit the use of passes, which is welcome. However, she also stated that a funding cap has been in place now for several years, which means that no new routes and no new private companies are being admitted to the scheme. She referred to the financial strain on the scheme and indicated that an interdepartmental group had been set up to review its future operation.

For many pensioners across the country and certainly for pensioners in Wicklow, the pass is essential for many services, in particular access to health care. Last year, Bus Éireann changed the No. 2 bus route, reducing its frequency and removing some of the stops. Critically, the route no longer included St. Vincent's Hospital. To the credit of Bus Éireann, it reinstated much though not all of the scheme following the making of representations. However, Bus Éireann told us the reason it made the changes was because the scheme needed to be stand-alone profitable. Here is the danger. As has already been said in the debate, as more and more routes are privatised there is a real risk that the company will be told the fund no longer extends to it or it will determine that the scheme is not financially viable. We are likely to be faced with a situation in which pensioners all over the country do not have access to essential services like health care because new routes and new operators are not allowed or decide not to operate the free travel scheme.

We all know that money is tight, but can the Minister of State revert to whoever will be the relevant line Minister after tomorrow to ask that Government provide an absolute guarantee that when it comes to access to services like health care the scheme will apply no matter what changes are made to routes or who operates them?

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I am aware that the Minister for Social Protection insisted last night that there is no threat to the free travel pass. Similar promises have been made in the past so she will forgive us for being a little sceptical. I am sure she remembers her colleague, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, signing a pre-election pledge not to increase third level fees. We know what happened to that. The Minister herself made a commitment in the House not to cut the one-parent family payment until a proper system of child care was put in place. In April 2012, she told us she would only proceed with measures to reduce the upper age limit to seven years in the event that she received a credible and bankable commitment on the delivery of a Scandinavian style system of child care by the time of that year's budget. That also fell through.

I hope the review of the scheme is not a distraction created by Government to cover for planned cuts in other areas such as the electricity allowance. This is certainly a fear shared by many older people. Like other vulnerable groups, elderly people have not been protected from austerity by the Government. The increase in prescription charges and cuts to the fuel allowance, telephone allowance, respite care grant, invalidity pension and the bereavement grant have all hit the elderly. Like everyone else, their incomes had been further reduced by the property tax and, soon, water charges. As Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan pointed out last night, many are supporting their adult children or grandchildren who may be unemployed or in negative equity.

I was struck by a phrase used by the CEO of Alone after the 2014 budget. He said the cuts undermined the dignity of older people. It is a powerful phrase and gets to the heart of the matter. Elderly people, like everyone else in society, have a right to live with dignity. The charity has seen a 50% increase in calls in the past two years. Many older people depend on State supports to keep out of poverty and the free travel pass is part of that. It is also crucial to prevent isolation and loneliness among older citizens. For those who are single or widowed, the ability to get out and simply interact with others on a day-to-day basis is vital. It is something the rest of us may take for granted, but the Government should not.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to speak on this important Private Members' motion on the elderly, the free travel pass scheme and the disastrous review of vital social services such as the medical card fiasco. We must all stand up for our senior citizens and their valuable contribution over the past 50 or 60 years. Independent Deputies in this House will always do so and I reject the recent attacks on our elderly. They built up this country and should always be shown respect, dignity and support in their daily lives. It is important to ensure the elderly are fully empowered to engage with society and able to continue as active members of their communities in all aspects. We must recognise the vital role of the free travel pass in supporting elderly people and reducing isolation since it was introduced in 1967.

Almost 80% of older people used the free travel pass at least once a week, while 30% use it daily in order to attend medical appointments and other personal journeys and social activities. There is also broader economic benefit to many cities and towns. I reject the series of cuts that have hit our elderly, such as the hike in prescription charges, the abolition of the telephone allowance, the reduction in the fuel allowance and the erosion of housing aid support. I call on the Government to fully support and retain the free travel scheme in its current form as a universal benefit to all people aged 66 years and over. We should work towards progressing the national positive ageing strategy. I urge all Deputies to put their money where their mouths are and to vote in support of our senior citizens. I put strong emphasis on the senior citizens of the north side of Dublin.

Tony McLoughlin (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I propose to share time with Deputies James Bannon, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Joe McHugh, Eamonn Maloney, Joanna Tuffy, John O'Mahony, Catherine Byrne and Paul Connaughton.

More than 1.1 million people avail of a free travel pass in this country. The majority are over 66 years of age and, in many cases, hold companion passes to enable a partner, carer or relative to travel free with that person if it is deemed necessary based on a health certificate. Over the past three budgets, the Government has protected the free travel scheme despite the need to reduce welfare spending. That is the case because the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, and her Government understand and recognise the hugely important role the free travel scheme plays in allowing older people to live their lives to the full. Older people, like most sectors over recent years, have had to endure significant cuts such as the abolition of the telephone allowance. However, when we consider what they had to suffer under the previous Fianna Fáil-led Government, then it does not compare. For example, the main pension payments, including the blind pension, were reduced.

This motion is in response to a review of the free travel pass system as currently structured, which is only right and correct. There is huge potential for fraud and, to give the taxpayer better value for the €70 million the free travel costs, the Government should examine all options. It is time that any person with free travel pass entitlements should have it included on the new public service card that has fraud prevention capabilities, including facial imaging detection. This will reduce the risk of fraud and of people allowing other people to use the card. I am glad that Ministers have clarified that the free travel scheme is not at risk and I hope all Members listen clearly to the message. However, we are fooling ourselves if we think all users are legitimate so I encourage the Departments of Transport, Tourism and Sport and Social Protection to ensure adequate fraud detection within the system. The Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, outlined that there will be no changes.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am delighted to speak on this motion. The free travel pass scheme is valued by everyone and I appreciate its importance and value to the 780,000 people, mostly elderly, who use it. Fianna Fáil is blatantly trying to scare older people by issuing completely inaccurate statements about the threat to the free travel pass. Despite assurances and confirmation from the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste that the Government taking away the free travel pass scheme is not on the agenda, Members opposite are determined to whip up fear on this issue. The scheme is important to our senior citizens so that they are fully empowered to engage with society. I agree with Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett that we must examine the subventions given to private operators in rural areas.

The free travel scheme, along with the rural transport scheme project, has proved to be a wonderful success story. It has created a lifeline to many in addressing social exclusion in rural areas. The value of the free travel pass in rural areas is one of the issues highlighted by my constituents. The issue has emerged not because of any suggested change in Government policy but as a result of a pre-budget submission released by the lobby group Age Action Ireland explaining the impact of cuts by the previous Fianna Fáil-led Government on the lives of older Irish people. A Fianna Fáil-led Government cut the universal entitlements enjoyed by many older people, such as free medical cards, age-related tax credits and other key support and services to older people. A Fianna Fáil-led Government cut the energy schemes that left many older people with fuel poverty problems. In budget 2010, Fianna Fáil cut the widows, blind and invalidity pensions, as well as the disability allowance by over €8 per week. It also cut the rate of carers allowance in budget 2010 by €8.50 per week. Fine Gael has protected older people in crisis and will continue to do so.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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It must be difficult for Fianna Fáil to see all the attention other parties are getting at the moment but it is a step too far for it to try to get some attention by creating a row about something that is not even a problem - it is a ball of smoke. I strongly object to the fact that Fianna Fáil is trying to get attention by scaring older people by pretending there is a threat to the free travel scheme. There is no threat to the travel pass. This has been stated categorically by a number of senior Ministers. Fianna Fáil appears to have missed that.

Fianna Fáil has been no friend to the elderly and when Fianna Fáil was in power it cut pensions and carers and disability allowances. Fianna Fáil did a lot more damage that affected all of us, not just the elderly. I have worked with older people in my constituency and I understand their needs. What they do not need is Fianna Fáil scaremongering about travel passes being taken away. I agree with the UN principle for older people, which states that older people should have access to a full range of services for their basic needs, to work and study as long as they can and to be able to live active lives, to live in their homes safely as long as they can. Older people should remain integrated and participate in society and continue to develop themselves through education and training. Older people should be able to live in dignity and security. Older people need their dignity and independence and the travel pass is very important to help maintain this. I support this and Fine Gael supports this.

Older people use their travel pass to visit family and friends, local shops and to attend medical appointments. Many of them use the travel pass to go on a day out or for a short break and to visit relatives. Some of them use it to go to work. Fine Gael understands this and will maintain the travel pass. I hope the Fianna Fáil Members are listening. I want to reassure people that the travel pass is not under threat and I ask them to forgive Fianna Fáil for trying to use this issue to get some attention. Fianna Fáil is a disgrace.

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I will not go over ground the previous speaker debated so eloquently. In a nutshell, there is unnecessary uncertainty around this motion, but we should examine the issue constructively. A review is ongoing and there are issues in regard to the challenges. One of the challenges concerns rural areas, where private operators are under considerable economic and financial pressure as a result of minimum subventions. We must ensure we address the rural challenges and that opportunities for bringing people into more urban areas are addressed. Another issue is disability access. There is still no disability access on Bus Éireann services from Letterkenny to Dublin. We must ensure this happens sooner rather than later.

I call on the Minister of State to intervene and to assist in regard to an issue relating to the Buncrana-Derry route. A private operator has taken over the Lough Swilly route and, because of the review, the fact existing contractors or operators get subvention does not mean the new operator will automatically get subvention or that it will recognise travel passes. We have a situation now where elderly people who want to travel between Derry and Buncrana, people with disabilities and people with invalidity passes are not recognised for free transport. The Minister of State may be heading for a higher position in the next 48 hours or less, but before then will he intervene in this regard and call on the Minister for Social Protection to examine the number of people on invalidity passes on the Derry to Buncrana route? Anecdotally, I believe there is a large number of people on invalidity or disability passes on this route and this should be acknowledged. It is not acknowledged currently as the review does not allow the new operator coming in to have the same dispensation as the previous operator. It should be acknowledged that this is wrong.

I will not go into the legacy issues in terms of transportation in the north west. Those issues are there to be seen. People, be they the elderly, people with invalidity passes or people on disability, who are trying to get from Buncrana to Derry do not have the option of rail or of using Iarnród Éireann or inter-urban routes. The only choice they have is this private operator, who although he is providing an excellent service cannot provide this free service because he gets no subvention. I ask for the Minister of State's indulgence on this and call on him to intervene directly to try to find a way around this issue.

Eamonn Maloney (Dublin South West, Labour)
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All of us are familiar with the pattern of what happens here on Wednesday evenings at Private Members' time. If some of the Opposition are not here to frighten the kids of the nation, they are here to frighten senior citizens. This is what we have here tonight. This motion is an exercise to spook people into believing their travel passes are under threat. They are not under threat and the Opposition knows that. Charles Dickens described his father as a "jovial opportunist". In other words, he was like those here who take opportunities such as this to engage in eager opportunism, which is essentially what this debate is. We will be back next Wednesday night and the Opposition will have found some other group of citizens they will try to spook. That is what happens here, despite the promise made three years ago there would be no "Punch and Judy" debating here. That was quickly forgotten.

I never use the term "free travel pass". Nobody has ever explained to me how it could be free. Is it not being paid for? Taxpayers pay for it. I wish people would drop the idea that as part of the services provided by the State it is free. It is not free. Those of us who work pay taxes and those who have paid taxes and are now retired fund it. This is one of the few jurisdictions where this term "free" is used, as if it came out of air or as if the previous empire was sending us a cheque that funded it. That is now how it is.

I listened to some people speak about travel passes being available to all citizens of a particular age. Members are entitled to their opinion, but this is not an opinion I share. I was surprised to hear what some of the Opposition had to say on this. Have we not learned anything? Will any of them argue that a retired politician who left this House three years ago, who is on a pension of €1,000 a week, should have a travel pass? They might support that, but I do not. It is not so long ago since there was a discussion in this House on a retired judge. Retired judges do not come cheap, but this judge had a travel pass. Some Members might agree with that, but I do not understand how they can in the context of services under a welfare state which all of us should be prepared to defend. The welfare state exists to look after those who have the least. Providing travel passes to overpaid retired politicians or judges is wrong and should be stopped.

I commend the Minister on deciding to review the situation. If the principle aim of the review is to deal with these issues, I am all for it. If the Minister comes in and says all retired well paid people should forfeit their travel passes, I will put my finger on the voting buzzer to support that, because these passes should be taken from them. We should not subsidise people who are well off. Another class of people who should not have travel passes are wealthy landlords. I am aware of a landlord who owns 17 properties in this city and who has a travel pass. Will anybody stand up and defend that? I hope not.

Deputy Mac Lochlainn referred to us shutting our eyes to certain issues and we have done so since this scheme was initiated. I support the Government, so I take my share of the blame in that regard. The issue to which he referred was the issue of fraud. Any of us who use public transport will know that if they ask any bus drivers, Luas drivers or drivers of the Expressway service, they will get the truth on this. I commend the Deputy on raising the issue of fraud. It alone is a good enough reason to carry out this review.

We should face up to these issues. I welcome any review of services that come under the heading of the welfare state. We must step up to the plate in terms of services and the provision of services to those with the least. If we are to do that, we must face the problem of the issues I have raised and ensure that people who can well afford to pay for their travel do so, rather than hard pressed taxpayers.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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This issue was put to bed by the Minister last night, last week, last year and the two previous years and when she was speaking last night, she supported the free travel scheme as a universal scheme. In the past few budgets, the Government had to make serious cutbacks in spending, but it protected the travel pass scheme consistently. Why, therefore, should there be any threat to it in a time of recovery?

People are concerned the scheme is being reviewed, but there have been reviews previously. There was a review last year and the previous year. We have discussed these reviews in the Oireachtas committee. Deputy O'Dea is on the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection with me and is aware of reviews that have taken place. The issue of fraud has been considered as part of those reviews. With any scheme where there is expenditure as high as on this scheme, there must be continual review and monitoring.

Age Action has been mentioned in our debate. I believe Age Action was wrongfooted in this regard as there is so much else on which it should campaign.

8 o’clock

There is no need for it to campaign negatively about things which are perceived to be under threat. All it is doing is feeding in to the need for perpetual outrage, negativity and fear. Many lobby groups do not acknowledge or give credit for much that is good these days. I wonder why that is the case, particularly as it is in no way helpful in the context of political discourse or our democracy.

The free travel scheme is a good news story and everyone is in favour of it, particularly as it gives rise to very positive outcomes. There are also other good news stories. For example, Dublin Bus e-mailed all Deputies to inform them that it intends to recruit 100 additional drivers. That is a sign of the company's recovery. Everyone is aware of the works being done to extend the Luas and consultations are taking place in respect of the new Swiftway service. Many good developments are happening. If anything, we should be discussing the progress we need to make now that things are looking up for the economy. The Minister referred to the positive elements of the social welfare system which are designed to alleviate poverty. She gave credit where credit is due and complimented the previous Government - of which Deputy O'Dea was a member - in the context of its protection of the free travel scheme and other actions it took in the area of social welfare. I often acknowledge the fact that in the closing years of its term of office, the said Administration tried - out of necessity - to make the tax system more progressive. According to the OECD, we now have the third most progressive income tax system in the world as a result.

I am completely in favour of this scheme being universal and in my opinion a retired judge should be able to benefit from it. The important thing is that said retired judge should be obliged to pay his taxes to pay for the scheme. There are other universal schemes in place, such as free primary education. The idea is that we pay our taxes and then everybody buys into the fact that there is universal provision in respect of certain services. This is one of those services. Now that we are in the midst of a recovery, we should consider building on universality. Where we have rowed back in respect of the universal provision of public services in recent years, we should, where possible, restore what previously obtained. It is extremely important that we have in place universal provision in respect of services, etc., that are good for our society as a whole and that we do not discriminate with regard to who can avail of these.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I also welcome the fact that this matter is being discussed and that a review is taking place in the context of ensuring that the free travel scheme - which is paid for by means of a subsidy from the Government - will be protected for those who really deserve it. The scheme provides a huge boost to business and tourism throughout the country and it is extremely important that it be continued. I welcome the fact that the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, have absolutely confirmed that the scheme is to be retained.

I am not sure from where - I have an idea - the motivation for this motion came.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Has the Deputy ever heard of Age Action Ireland?

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It has, however, provided the Government with the opportunity to confirm that the scheme will continue. The previous Administration froze the subsidy relating to the scheme in 2010. In the context of protecting the scheme for those who are entitled to avail of it, I received anecdotal evidence from pensioners I have met who, while travelling to Galway, Wexford or wherever, saw young people in their 20s on public transport who were in possession of free travel passes and who had slabs of beer with them. Obviously, the suggestion in this regard is that the scheme is being abused.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Perhaps the Deputy might either move or turn off his mobile phone. It appears to be interfering with the sound feed.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the review, particularly as it will protect the scheme for those who really deserve to avail of it.

The only scaremongering about this matter in recent weeks has come in the form of the motion before the House and from comments made by a number of members of the Opposition.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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This motion was introduced only last night.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, but it was commented upon in the past week when Age Action Ireland issued a statement.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It was not.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Yes, it was.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It was commented upon by various members of the Opposition. It is important to repeat what the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport have stated that the free travel scheme will not be affected.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Private Members' motions are submitted only on the Friday before they are due to be taken. How could it have been commented upon in the past two weeks?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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No one knows what Deputy Troy is talking about.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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How many times must we say this to those who served in a Government which reduced carer's allowance twice, disability allowance, widow's pension and invalidity on two occasions?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The current Administration has not restored them.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The motivation of those who framed the motion is shallow, particularly when one considers the actions they took when they were in power.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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And we can take that to the bank.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Good old Charlie.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Ah go on.

Paul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. A great deal has been said already on this matter and I will try not to revisit any of the ground that has been covered.

Instead of just discussing the free travel scheme, like Deputy McHugh I am of the opinion that we should seek to focus more on rural transport and opening up further access routes to rural areas. Not all areas are covered by public transport and while the free travel pass is of huge benefit to some people, they do not always have the opportunity to use it. A much wider and more substantial debate must take place in respect of that matter.

I understand that when the issue to which the motion relates was first raised, two senior Cabinet Ministers stated in very clear terms that there will be no changes whatsoever to the scheme. As a result, I have come to the conclusion there is a certain element of scaremongering going on.

Many people were frightened by this. Like the previous Government we certainly have not always got it right in previous budgets when dealing with those over 70 years. Certain mistakes were made and they need to be learned from. One point I often hear from people over 70 years is that they have worked all their lives and the free travel pass is one of the few benefits they can look forward to. It is the one thing they would hate to have taken away. Another issue that has come up often in recent years is the change in the telephone allowance and I am keen for us to re-examine that. There is no point in believing we have got it right all the time. That issue caused a great deal of concern, particularly for those who suffer from rural isolation and who live in fear of crime. The allowance was one of the things that kept them in contact with people at all times.

I do not intend going over what has already been said. I am disappointed in the Private Members' motion, it is simply scaremongering for people. I am unsure where Fianna Fáil came up with the motion or the thought process after the brains trust came together. Sometimes I wonder whether Fianna Fáil are a little like Brazil last night in that perhaps their best days are behind them even if they were a big deal once. I am unsure where this motion has come from. A change has been ruled out completely. There will be no changes to the free travel scheme in next year's budget.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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He is more out of touch than I thought.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I take it Deputy Connaughton did not look at the local election results.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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The next speaker is Deputy Kitt. I understand you are sharing time with Deputy Troy, Deputy Calleary and Deputy McConalogue. You have five minutes.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I commend Deputy O'Dea on the motion. I am pleased to discuss the proposal this evening and I fully support the protection of the free travel pass scheme introduced by Fianna Fáil in 1967. I was a teenager at the time. This means that I should be looking forward to my free travel pass if it is still available - I hope it is. There was a good deal of opposition in 1967 from the Civil Service but it is great that we held onto it and we won the day. The scheme has ensured that generations of elderly people in Ireland have been able to stay connected to their communities. It has helped isolated individuals play an active role in their areas. Combined with the rural transport scheme, services for people with disabilities and essential services it is a welcome measure. In particular, it helps people to attend medical and other personal appointments and, for this reason, it should be user-friendly. I have always fought for suitable timetables for people who use the travel pass. I have in mind Woodlawn station, near where I live. People there have seen services cut, including the services to Dublin and Galway. We have to get the timetable and the cost right. Parking is an issue that has reared its head again in some of the small stations. We have to get all these things together.

Helping the elderly travel around the country has been the greatest benefit of the scheme. When I hear the word "review" I think of cutbacks, like the cutbacks to the household benefit package. Furthermore, the telephone allowance went, there was a reduction in free electricity units and the respite care grant, while the bereavement grant is gone. There has been an increase in prescription charges and reductions in the fuel allowance and housing aid supports.

I have heard people refer to a small charge for the free travel scheme. Of course if we bring in a small charge it will soon become a big charge. We need only think of the prescription charges going from 50 cent to €2.50. This is something I am not keen to see, nor am I keen to see restrictions on the use of the travel pass at peak travel time.

Deputy Sean Fleming received an interesting reply on the criteria and terms of reference during Question Time today. The first issue was eligibility. Government Deputies seem to have a difference of opinion tonight about who should be eligible. The reply also referred to an examination of the extent of the service provided, data on the usage of the scheme, fraud and control measures and the interaction between stakeholders and the scheme. All these issues are being examined.

Age Action Ireland is right to say that any attempt to meddle with the scheme or water it down would create a whole new set of problems for Ireland's ageing population. The group is right to warn of any negative changes to the scheme. Any changes will be vehemently opposed by older people.

If there is an effort to limit the times when the pass can be used, introduce an annual charge or restrict the forms of transport that it can be used on, there will be strong opposition. Age Action Ireland produced a survey highlighting the importance of travel passes to elderly people for carrying out everyday tasks. We do not want a repeat of last year's budget when the Government abolished the telephone allowance for older people without realising that many older people use the telephone as part of a pendant alarm service. There is always the danger of knock-on issues which perhaps we have not considered.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, said that taking away the free travel pass is simply not on the agenda. Certainly there are issues surrounding the travel pass that must be addressed. Reference was made to fraud and identification but we can examine fraud without a major review of eligibility. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív raised the issue of online booking. Elderly people are used to simply getting on the train at their local station and therefore if we are going to bring in online booking then we are going down the wrong road. There should be a way of getting on the train in the traditional way, as it were. There are other changes, including direct debit payments for all elderly people, whether they are paying an ESB or gas bill through the post office or the credit union. Nowadays, it appears the utility companies seek deposits from anyone who chooses to pay by cash. It is the same as online booking; obstacles are being placed in people's way.

Not every county has a railway service although those of us in Galway are fortunate to have one. Naturally, it should be improved. Anyway, one of the greatest benefits in rural areas is the rural transport scheme. If we had a good timetable for buses in places where we do not have trains then we would be in a better position in the west of Ireland. I hope that the House can accept the motion so ably proposed by Deputy O'Dea.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Acting Chairman for the opportunity to speak to this important issue. We have listened to Government Deputies criticising this side of the House for bringing forward and advocating the genuine fears of people. It is not only Fianna Fáil as a political party which is advocating these fears. The largest advocacy group in the sector, Age Action Ireland, has been highlighting its concerns about this issue, not for weeks but for months.

It was amazing to listen to Deputy John O'Mahony referring to people carrying slabs of beer on the trains. Does he honesty believe our senior citizens are going around with six-packs under their coats, travelling up and down? If it were not so serious it would be laughable. The previous speakers were falling over each other referring to what a fabulous scheme it is. If it is that good and working that well, then why the need to review it?

The Minister of State and his colleagues have lost sight of one simple thing. When they advocate a review and follow up by saying that nothing will change, the people do not believe them. The Government has lost the trust of the people because they have seen what the review of the medical card situation has done and the pain, hardship and anxiety it has brought on so many people.

The Government amendment refers to the previous Government making cuts and reducing expenditure. That is true and no one can argue with it. However, what the previous Government did was done in a fair and equitable manner. It is not a matter of Fianna Fáil saying that, the ESRI has said it. The institute has said the previous budgets were progressive, unlike the three budgets that the Minister of State has so faithfully and loyally supported, all of which were regressive.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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What about the troika?

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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They were budgets which took most from the least well-off in society.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil brought the troika into this country.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Government Deputies proceeded to talk about protection of the weekly social welfare rates.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Deputy Troy is revising history.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State does not like what I am saying because it is the truth.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I ask the Minister of State not to interrupt.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I do not like what Deputy Troy is saying because it is unadulterated rubbish.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Sorry, Minister of State, you have to let him speak.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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It is absolute revisionism.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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If the Minister of State cannot take the heat, he should get out of the kitchen and let a senior Minister come in and take his seat.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Minister of State, you must allow the Deputy to speak.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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He deserves to be embarrassed for that nonsense.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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No, Minister of State. Furthermore, you should speak through the Chair.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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When we want to talk about-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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It is rhetorical nonsense.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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No. The Minister of State will get a chance to respond.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I am sorry.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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That is a minute of my time in which I did not get to contribute.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Continue, Deputy.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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It is like a dictatorship. When people on that side of the House do not like what people on this side of the House have to say,-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Not when it is complete rubbish.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Shout us down.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----they try to shout us down.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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This is a democracy.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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The Minister of State should let the Deputy finish.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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According to the Government's amendment,-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil nearly cost us our democracy.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----"the Government has supported and protected the core weekly social protection payments". That might be true to a certain extent, but not for those under 25 or 22 years of age whose weekly jobseeker's allowance payments have been cut, those who have seen their weekly maternity benefit reduced by including it in tax calculations, those whose jobseeker's benefit payments have been cut by three months to nine months in respect of full PRSI contributions or those whose fuel allowance payments have been cut by six weeks. Last week, we saw the unprecedented targeting of people in receipt of the single parent allowance. It was not reduced. Instead, when their children turn seven years of age, their weekly allowance will be gone. While the Government may have protected the old age pension rate, what is being taken from recipients' pockets has increased significantly through, for example, prescription charges, which the Government was going to reduce upon entering office, increased fuel prices due to carbon taxes and three increases in electricity bills sanctioned by the Government in recent years.

According to the Government's amendment, it has "prioritised the concerns of older people across the whole of Government in a new way". I could not agree more, but the new way is a negative one that has terrorised every senior citizen like never before. If the Government wants to protect senior citizens, why have home help hours been reduced by 1 million in the past two years? In County Westmeath, there was a 60% reduction - more than 160,000 hours - in 2013 compared with 2012.

Consider the medical card fiasco. Every week, people on all sides of the House have been visited in their constituency offices by senior citizens in floods of tears and unable to control their anxieties about their medical card reviews. Medical cards have been removed from the sickest and most vulnerable in society.

A Deputy referred to the telephone allowance. In abolishing it, the Government took away what was a lifeline for many. When a person went to bed at night, he or she could press the panic button hanging around his or her neck upon becoming sick or someone breaking into the house. People no longer have that service thanks to this Government.

Charlie Haughey introduced free transport, an innovative creation at the time. As reported in the national media this year, some people are using their free transport because they cannot afford to heat their homes thanks to the Government's policy decisions. Not only has the Government discussed changing eligibility criteria, but it has cut the number of routes. A bus that used to go through my village is gone now. It transported senior citizens to the local town. A bus used to go through Multyfarnham in my constituency twice per day. Senior citizens had the opportunity to travel to Dublin or Mullingar for doctors' appointments. That bus route is gone. In Moyne in County Longford, 150 senior citizens-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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What is the root cause of all of those cuts?

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----in a public hall-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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May I raise a point of order, please?

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Why make all those promises before the election, then?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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What is the root cause of all of those cuts?

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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That is not a point of order.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Some 150 senior citizens packed into a hall-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The Deputy is spouting absolute revisionist nonsense.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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What about the promises the Government made?

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----with anxiety because of-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil bankrupted the country.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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----the Government's decisions-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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That is why these people are suffering now.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Please, there is just one minute left.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----and policies.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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We are restoring those services by stealth.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is restoring nothing - it is taking everything away.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I am glad you are listening to what I am saying now.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Senior citizens are going to bed in absolute fear and anxiety every night of the week-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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You are an absolute thundering disgrace.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I ask the Minster of State to-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----because of decisions this Government has made.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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A young man like you. You are a thundering disgrace.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Remember the promises that Labour made.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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There you go now. Look at the-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Where are the promises now?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Where did Fianna Fáil land this country? This country-----

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I am sorry, but you cannot-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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You came into power in full knowledge-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Who brought the troika in? The great-----

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Minister of State-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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----of the country's economic constraints-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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-----Fianna Fáil Government, the great Fianna Fáil republican party,-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----and you made promises.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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-----bankrupted this country.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The new leader of the Labour Party made promises.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Minister of State, you are taking up the-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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You are an absolute disgrace.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I am sorry, but this is not on.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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As Minister for Social Protection, she sat around the Government table-----

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Deputy, your time is up.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----when an awful lot of these disastrous, negative and regressive-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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If the men and women of 1916 knew what you did to this country-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----decisions were made.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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You are an absolute disgrace.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Deputies should speak through the Chair.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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There could be a bit of fairness.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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The Minister of State has used up some of the Minister of State, Deputy White's time to reply.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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There is no fairness or equity.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I call Deputy Calleary to take the floor.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Follow that.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The difficulty for the Minister of State and his colleagues is-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I have no difficulty.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Let Deputy Calleary continue, please.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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-----that they have all come to the Chamber with their scripts and given assurances that the Tánaiste stated this would not happen. I am willing to accept her at her word, but her currency is not good. She told us that the household benefits package, as she depleted it budget after budget, would remain in place. The telephone-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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What is the motion?

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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The Minister of State has used his own speaking time.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I am framing my contribution in the context of the Minister of State's defence, which is that the Tánaiste has stated it will be all right on the night.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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She never said that.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The household benefits package has been depleted so much that there is no longer a telephone allowance. That was not supposed to happen. The allowance does not just cover telephones, but also, as Deputy Troy mentioned, panic alarms. It provides senior citizens security at night. That pendant is the one item they speak about.

The Government was elected to office in full knowledge of how serious the economic situation was. The manifestos of both parties-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The Deputy finally acknowledges how difficult it was.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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-----made commitments that, in fairness, were adapted into a programme for Government that reflected the situation. Under the programme, however, prescription charges were to be abolished. Instead, they have been increased substantially. This currency means that we cannot accept the assurances.

We have been discussing the medical card situation for 18 months. We have been advising and trying to work with the HSE on the problems created by the review. It took a local election collapse for that situation to be reviewed.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I acknowledge that point.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I have no doubt that the Minister of State made representations to the Minister, Deputy Reilly, and the Taoiseach-----

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Yes, but not the nonsense Deputy Troy was spouting.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Calleary without interruption, please.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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-----that were not listened to until such time as the collapse. During that 18 months, unbelievable and unfair distress was caused not just to senior citizens, but to people generally. This concern and stress fell on deaf ears until people turned out on 23 May, but I am not convinced that they are even being heard now. People are still attending our offices because their cards have been withdrawn. There is still a great deal of distress. There is no mention of new legislation to alleviate the problem.

This is the background to the situation. When people hear the word "review", they think about their medical cards and telephone allowances being removed, their prescription charges trebling and no allowance being provided to older people on fixed incomes in respect of their property taxes or water charges.

That is the background and the reason we are raising this issue. For Fine Gael Deputies, in particular, who were Members of the last Dáil to come into the House and give out because we are raising it and talk about us scaremongering takes the biscuit, to be polite. From 2007 to 2011 Fine Gael traded on scaremongering. Every night was Hallowe'en. The Minister of State's new party Leader engaged in a fair bit of it herself in her day and Thursday at Question Time and during Leaders' Questions used to be scare Thursday. We will now see the colour of her money.

The review needs to focus on a number of things. The travel pass, particularly in rural areas, is important for social purposes but also medical purposes. It provides many people with the ability to attend a medical appointment in regional and Dublin hospitals where they have to attend at 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. The notion of a time limit on usage of the pass is unfair and will restrict people's ability to use it for medical purposes.

As we are rolling out the new picture ID card, fraud can be controlled better. Surely, if the Department has a reduction of fraud as an ambition in rolling out the ID card, with which we all agree, we should roll it out to those who use the services most. This should feature in the plan for rolling out the card and if the free travel pass is in the Government's sights in terms of fraud control, those who have it should be the first to get the ID card. That would make sense and cut down on fraud. CIE and the companies that make the most money from the travel pass should be told to get their act together in terms of fraud control. They have a role in that respect; it is not only the Department's job. Any company that is using and making money out of the system cannot wash its hands of responsibility in tackling fraud and should be given the powers and resources it requires to do so.

We need to examine the rural transport scheme. The wonder Minister of State, Deputy Alan Kelly, has done a good deal of work around the scheme, but I am not convinced by it for many reasons. Unfortunately, it will be the winter before we see it being rolled out. He has been so busy in the past few weeks launching canal passes in every part of the country where there is a Labour Part member that we have not had a chance to see how effective the scheme will be.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Some were launched twice.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The rural transport scheme is essential and has evolved to fill the gap in local services, about which Deputy Robert Troy spoke, to transport people to bigger towns to access basic services, including medical services, go shopping or simply get out of the house and meet friends. It has been adopted wonderfully in many rural areas and I am sure the Minister of State has had a chance to see this in recent years, with people being brought to community centres to have their lunch and some social interaction. That is what it is about; it is about giving people in rural areas the ability to make the most of their community, not to be prisoners is their own home. We must make sure the roll-out of the new Kelly bus dovetails with the travel pass scheme. We must make sure it does not undermine the scheme and that when the review is published, the new so-called transport initiative is put in place and that the travel pass is not restricted as a result of their having access to the new rural transport scheme. I have no doubt some civil servant has thought of this already and that it is be done to save costs.

Many media organisations have been working on this issue in recent weeks and Age Action has taken it up as its main campaigning issue. It wants to have it nailed down before the summer recess, bearing in mind that it will be too late to tackle it in September when many of the budget decisions are taken. This is the time to do it. I am sorry if we are inconveniencing Government backbenchers by forcing them to come here. The Minister of State was not here to listen to a lot of what we had to put up with. His colleagues are very distressed about having to come here and have accused us of scaremongering, which is a bit rich, particularly coming from those who were on this side of the House in the last Dáil. We are not scaremongering, rather we are seeking to defend the scheme which has inestimable value. Admittedly, it has a monetary cost, but in terms of the monetary return and, most importantly, its inestimable social value, it needs to be defended. We are seeking to defend it and send a message to those who abuse it. If people are abusing it, they are ruining it for everyone else and it is their fault that it is under review. If they are abusing it in terms of their right to use it, they should cop on because their abuse of it and such fraud are costing those who want and need the scheme. It will eventually cost them some day. That message must go out in terms of the review if it is to be serious.

As I said before the Minister of State came into the Chamber, it is difficult for us to accept assurances about the scheme from a Government that has destroyed the household benefits package, the lineage of which probably dates back as far as the travel pass, that has acted in the way it has in respect of prescription charges and that stood by while various taxes were imposed on older people. Furthermore, in her first budget the Minister of State's new party leader told women who had left work to rear their family and then returned that they had lost pension entitlements which they otherwise would have had. That is the currency in which the Tánaiste has traded and the reason people are sceptical about her assurances that this is only a review and that there will not be a change. She has sold them a pup far too often and they are not going to buy another one from her.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I join my party colleagues and commend our party spokesperson, Deputy Willie O'Dea, for bringing forward the motion and putting it firmly on the political agenda in advance of the Government making a decision on the review it has commissioned. We all know why there should be genuine concern about Government's review of the free travel scheme. It is based on our experience of what it has done to date, particularly the recent experience of its review of medical cards, on foot of which thousands of discretionary medical cards were removed, yet we saw members of the Government day in, day out try to deny that people were losing their medical cards. On the back of this, it is only reasonable and appropriate that we ensure the Minister of State is given the strong message - "hands off the free travel scheme". We have seen the impact of the the policies of the Government in the past three years as they affected older people, in particular, who use the free travel pass more than anyone else. We have seen the period during the fuel allowance is paid reduced from 32 weeks to 26 and the free electricity allowance reduced to such an extent that for many, it is worth only one fifth of what it was. The Government abolished the free telephone allowance, while there was an increase in prescriptions charges, with which many older people are hit every month when they go to obtain essential medications.

I point for the Minister of State to the impact of the Government's decision on the free travel scheme in County Donegal. On many of the routes operated by the Lough Swilly Bus Company there was approval of the use of the free travel pass, but that company went out of business and the routes were operated by other bus companies. Up to now the Government has refused to extend the free travel scheme to these companies. That means that a pensioner who used to be able to use his or her free travel pass to travel from Buncrana to Derry would be faced with paying the full fare of €8.75 return were it not for the fact that the new bus company, McGonagle buses, which has taken over the route is charging half fare of its own accord. Why should the free travel pass held by pensioners, mainly based on the Inishowen Peninsula in this instance, be worthless, while pensioners in other parts of the country can rightly use their pass to get around? I have tabled parliamentary questions to the Minister on this issue, but she has refused to relent and extend the free travel pass scheme to these new routes. It is unacceptable. When the Government is taking this approach to use of the pass on routes such as the Buncrana-Derry service, removing the eligiblity of pensioners and others to use the pass, is it not right that we should be concerned about its plans for the departmental review of the scheme?

It is right that we would be concerned about the Government's plans in regard to the departmental review of the free travel scheme. If Government was genuinely committed to ensuring that people will continue to be able to avail of that scheme, it would not be restricting access to it in a number of situations.

I call on the Minister of State, Deputy White, to discuss with the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, the extension of the free travel scheme to people in Donegal previously serviced by the Lough Swilly Bus Company in order that, like other people throughout the country who have access to the scheme, they are enabled to get around to do their daily business. It is unacceptable that these people would be left in a situation in which their passes are worthless. We all know - it has been mentioned several times already tonight - the value of the free travel pass to people over 66 years of age. The evidence suggests that 80% of people over 66 years of age rely solely on the their old age pension. These people require the free travel pass to enable them to get about. One often hears people say on turning 66 that it is great that they now have access to the free travel scheme. It means a great deal to them.

I remind the Minister of State, Deputy White, that the free travel scheme was first introduced by Fianna Fáil. Regardless of the attempts to have a go at Fianna Fáil, its track record in relation to caring for older people and ensuring they have the services they need in order to have a decent quality of life is second to none. I ask that the Minister of State ensure that there is a change of approach in terms of how these issues are dealt with. The free travel scheme must be maintained as is and extended to those in County Donegal who are currently being refused access to it.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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I welcome this opportunity to respond to this debate on behalf of the Government. The Government is conscious of the needs of older people. It also fully understands that a wide range of other groups, including unemployed people, parents, carers and people with disabilities, depend on the welfare budget for vital support. We know that social protection schemes, from pensions to child benefit and from free travel to rent supplement, play a pivotal role in alleviating poverty and cushioning people from the worst effects of rising unemployment and falling incomes. In doing so, they help to promote social solidarity. A recent report indicates that social transfers helped to lift almost nine out of ten older people out of poverty.

I want to respond to some of the commentary from across the floor during the course of the debate. It was said that recommendations had been leaked and that the Government was considering a number of specific changes. The review is not yet completed. The Tánaiste and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport have received no such recommendations and the Government is not considering any specific changes to the free travel scheme. I will repeat what the Tánaiste said last night. We make no apology for reviewing a scheme that is almost 50 years old. Every scheme must be open to review, improvement, better management and more effective delivery.

The free travel scheme has been remarkably robust since its inception in 1967. The fact that a quarter of the population has some access to free travel is unusual in international terms and it must be paid for. The freeze on funding for the scheme introduced by the previous Government in 2010 has placed pressure on its operation as eligible passenger numbers have continued to rise. Deputy O'Dea said the freeze was a once-off budgetary measure. It was in fact part of the previous Government's four-year plan, the programme for national recovery. Deputy Ó Cuív said last night that the freeze on funding imposed by the last Government had no impact on customers. He implied that transport operators should be happy to carry passengers without adequate and fair recompense. Operators must, of course, continue to be paid for carriage. Owing to the freeze introduced in 2010, new routes or operators have not been admitted to the scheme and the funding that operators have received has been frozen, even though fares may have increased. This is the issue that Deputy McConalogue needs to address in relation to the matters in Donegal to which he referred. The effect of the freeze has been that in a small number of cases, where an operator has withdrawn from a particular route and been replaced by another operator, the new operator is not admitted to the scheme. Although I am not well versed about the situation in Donegal, it would appear to me that this is what occurred in that regard.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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The Government could change the situation tomorrow if it wanted to.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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This freeze was introduced by Deputy McConalogue's party when in government in 2010.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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It is being applied by this Government.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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It was not a once-off budgetary measure but was part of the National Recovery Plan 2011-2014, from which I can quote if I have time. That is undeniably the case. It is true, as stated by Deputy McConalogue, that Fianna Fáil was in government in 1967 when the free travel scheme was introduced. Fianna Fáil was also in government when the freeze was introduced in 2010.

It was also mentioned that the interdepartmental group comprised no representatives of the elderly. This is true. That is the nature of an interdepartmental group. However, the terms of reference were public and the people carrying out the review met with a large range of representative groups, including the elderly, the disabled and carers. They also met with representatives of the transport operators. Everyone had the opportunity to present their views.

This Government entered office at a time of unprecedented economic challenge. Our public finances are now performing well. Our projected deficit is in line with the targets to be achieved. We have shown that stable public finances are an essential prerequisite to long-term economic growth and job creation. We are only able to successfully access the markets in the long term if the markets believe we have a credible fiscal strategy and agree that our debt is sustainable. I want to assure the House that the Government, in the context of a very tough budgetary environment, will continue to do its utmost to protect the most vulnerable people in Irish society. This includes maintaining the free travel scheme, which has been protected in successive budgets and will continue to be protected. The free travel pass is safe for beneficiaries.

I commend the Government amendment to the House.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I thank my colleague, Deputy O'Dea, for tabling the motion. One would be forgiven for believing that this crisis situation was created by Fianna Fáil, but the opposite is the case. It is a fact that the Government, including the new Labour Party leader and Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, initiated a review of this scheme. Stakeholders were contacted. Together with her colleagues of both Government parties, the Tánaiste has over the past couple of days suggested that this crisis was created by Fianna Fáil and one of the advocacy groups. A Labour Party colleague of the Minister of State, Deputy White, had the audacity to say on the floor of this House last night that this was a criminal endeavour between Age Action Ireland and Fianna Fáil. That was not retracted. The Deputy concerned used the phrase "Age Action Ireland and its partners in crime, Fianna Fáil". I reject out of hand the accusation that there is any effort to misguide or mislead anyone.

Deputy O'Dea and I had an opportunity to meet this evening with members of Age Action Ireland, who needless to say were appalled on behalf of the people that they represent that a member of the Labour Party or any Member of this House would take such a low swipe at a time when people are under pressure. The fact is that the Department of Social Protection engaged with stakeholders on a review basis and set out the criteria and areas for consideration, including the possible introduction of a charge for access to the free travel scheme, the possibility of restricting the hours during which the service would be used and the possibility of the service not being the same for a future cohort of pensioners.

The Minister of State said at the end of his contribution that beneficiaries would not be affected. However, he was speaking in that regard of current beneficiaries. Perhaps the Minister of State will confirm before the conclusion of this debate that the Tánaiste has no intention of changing the scheme in any way as it applies to people who are current or future users of it. The Government is playing with words. It should clarify where it stands on this scheme into the future. Fianna Fáil did not create the storm around this issue. We are addressing not only a palpable fear in the minds of those currently accessing the scheme but also the fears of people now in their late 50s and early 60s who know the benefits of this scheme when they reach a particular age and the importance of it in terms of their being about to get about in their daily lives.

It is important that we address the issue of charges, including the manner in which they are transferred to the State companies.

If the review ultimately states CIE and other operators are expected to do the same volume of work for less money, it will have an impact in the longer term on those who avail of the scheme.

I want the Minister of State to clarify in the clearest possible terms before the end of this debate why he keeps suggesting there is no basis whatsoever to the charges we are putting forward, and why his colleagues are attempting to detract from the core issue? Will he make it clear to the House that there will be no charges introduced to the scheme, no limitation on the time for which the scheme will be available and applicable, and no future changes for those about to reach the threshold age, including those who are about to reach it in the not-too-distant future? If he does so, he will confirm to the House that the review is a waste of time and that there was no need for it in the first instance.

The Minister referred to the fact that the proposals have something to do with eliminating fraud. The introduction of the new card deals with that. If there was a desire only to eliminate fraud, why, at the initial stakeholders' presentation, were issues such as charges, limitations on usage and the characteristics of the future package introduced? Let us have a bit of fairness and straight talking from the Government side.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge the commitment of Deputy O'Dea in tabling this motion. We face a problem over the use of language, namely in respect of the word "review". For many concerned people, a review means a cut by stealth. We know this from the medical card debacle, which caused considerable distress among the elderly and those with chronic illnesses, all of whom come under incredible pressure following a review.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, stated the review concerns only the modernisation of the scheme. The language used is the same language that was used to order a review into maternity services in the west and north-west regions. There was a proposal to rip out maternity services across hospitals in rural areas. That report or review was shelved only when we established that there was a significant conflict of interest between the connections of those people central to the commissioning of the report and the review itself.

Another so-called review, where the conclusions were predetermined by political necessity, was used to close, or never open, a state-of-the-art facility in Ballinasloe. It was a €3.2 million facility, the only ligature-free mental health facility in the country. It was never opened to ensure a Government backbencher would benefit from the proposal for a development in Galway city. That involved a review.

The Minister for Social Protection, now the new Tánaiste, has asked us to take her at her word that there will be no cuts to the free travel scheme but she will have to forgive us if we fail to do so because we know the Government's modus operandiwith regard to the word "review". The Minister made much of her protection of so-called core welfare payments. She has conveniently brushed over the fact that she disgracefully broke the commitment to young people under the age of 26 and the faithful commitment to the people, including women, that she would not cut child benefit. That commitment was part of a review under the programme for Government.

The Government has stood over cuts that have disproportionately targeted the elderly, carers, mentally ill and people under 26. It is not as if what we are saying is isolated from what is being said by the advocacy groups. Age Action Ireland has clearly expressed its concern about the review currently being undertaken by the Minister. The objective of this motion is to put a marker down on behalf of those who believe they are being let down by the Government with respect to how it approaches reviews.

Elderly people cannot be comforted by the Minister's assurances having witnessed the withdrawal of medical cards. Those over 70 have witnessed over 30,000 medical cards being taken from them. They have been subject to cuts to the tax relief on health insurance, the removal of the telephone allowance, cuts to the home help package and fuel allowance, the abolition of the bereavement grant and an increase in the pension levy. Therefore, elderly people know the Government is not on their side. The welfare of elderly people is in grave doubt with respect to the political commitment on the free travel scheme.

I ask the Minister of State to pay particular attention to comments already made tonight on private operators. Contributors have stated the scheme in this regard is under threat and not viable as a consequence of the number of private operators who have grave doubts about their capacity to continue to operate under the scheme.

I am sure the Minister of State will agree that the scheme has been of great significance in enhancing the quality of life of senior citizens. Some 70% of them rely on the scheme to gain access to medical care, do shopping and maintain social contact where rural isolation is a feature of life. I appeal to the Minister of State to advise the Tánaiste to enhance the assurances that have been given with respect to the ability of transport companies to provide services to the elderly. It is important that we examine the capacity to increase funding to ensure the private operators will have such scope.

I appreciate that the Minister and the Minister of State, Deputy Alex White, have spent a lot of energy over recent weeks on the internal affairs of their party. It is an indulgence that has lasted over seven weeks. I ask the Minister of State to spend the same amount of energy spent over the past seven weeks on the elderly by making a commitment to defend the welfare of vulnerable people, who simply do not trust the Government with respect to how it approaches reviews.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I thank everybody who contributed to the debate. The Government's main line of defence was attack. We have been accused consistently by Government backbenchers of trying to scare those eligible for free travel, as if they had suddenly become scared last night when the motion was tabled. For months we have been receiving representations, not only from individuals but also from relevant organisations, including Age Action Ireland, the Irish Senior Citizens' Parliament and a plethora of local organisations representing the elderly from one end of the country to the other. All their fear is based on a decision by the Government to conduct a review of the scheme, which review is now coming to an end.

As my colleagues stated, the last review people saw was that of the medical card system. People are aware of the fiasco resulting from that. Naturally, if they are anxious about a review of the free travel scheme, they can hardly be blamed in view of what has happened.

I was prevailed upon by several of the Minister of State's backbench colleagues last night to withdraw my motion. I was told to do so because they had got last night a categoric assurance from the Government, specifically from the Tánaiste, that everything would be satisfactory, leaving aside the fact that we got categoric assurances that there would be no reduction in child benefit and no increase in registration fees, in addition to assurances that prescription charges would be abolished and that the changes implemented regarding the lone parent allowance a fortnight ago would not be introduced until we had a Scandinavian-type child care system in the country. All of these categoric assurances were equally valueless. On the basis of yet another categoric assurance, from the same bottomless pit of categoric assurances, we were supposed to withdraw our motion, which could affect over 1 million people in a country of this size.

If one considers what the Minister said and the speech made tonight by the Minister of State, one will see it is clear that the Government is not giving the required assurance in any case. What the Minister said last night was that the free travel pass is safe. The Minister of State more or less repeated that tonight. I accept that, if only because it is politically impossible for the Government to abolish the free travel pass in view of the kicking it got in the recent elections. Therefore, the travel pass is safe.

9 o’clock

What we sought from the Government was a commitment that the free travel scheme in its present form will not be restricted, reduced, diminished or eroded in any respect. Deputy Dooley mentioned the specific proposals that are under consideration, such as an extra charge or restricting free travel to certain hours or to certain modes of transport. We wanted specific commitments on those issues and we did not get them. In response to the Members who invited or entreated me to withdraw the motion, I probably would not have insisted on having a vote on the matter if I had received the categorical assurances I sought. Being an optimistic type of chap, I realise that if one gets enough categorical assurances, one of them will eventually be honoured.

The serious point is that we have received many representations about this, and we had a meeting with representatives of Age Action Ireland this evening. The Government's attitude and responses to this motion will ensure that people who are elderly and in the twilight of their lives, the ill and disabled, the blind and people for whom the free travel pass is their only link to the outside world will continue to suffer anxiety, distress and worry because the sword of Damocles still hangs over the free travel scheme. That is the reality and the way the Government is acting. I note what the Tánaiste said on her assumption of the leadership of the Labour Party, that she wanted to govern more with the heart and the head, rather than just with the head. This is a very peculiar way to go about it.