Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

8. To ask the Minister for Social Protection if she will state definitively her Department's official position on and assessment of the true extent of rental top-ups being paid by persons to ensure they qualify for rent supplement; if she has been made aware even anecdotally of the fullest extent of the practice; her view on whether this is an indication of the inadequacy of the design of the current rent supplement regime; if such information will have an impact on future policy decisions of her Department in this area; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [17730/14]

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

10. To ask the Minister for Social Protection if her attention has been drawn to the increasing difficulties in which tenants on rent allowance are finding themselves when having to negotiate rent with their landlords after rent has risen; if her attention has been further drawn to the discrimination by landlords against tenants on rent allowance and the difficulties tenants are having in finding alternative accommodation as a result of same; if there are exceptional circumstances where her Department can assist tenants financially or otherwise when they are having difficulties negotiating rent with landlords; if it is a fair situation that a tenant on rent allowance should be left to negotiate rent when rent has risen and rent allowance has been cut; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [17647/14]

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The shortage of local authority housing means that many people are almost exclusively dependent on the rental sector. Market rents are significantly higher than the rent caps prescribed by the Department, which means tenants are obliged to pay top-ups to landlords. At yesterday's meeting of the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht, representatives of Focus Ireland and Simon Communities of Ireland indicated that the Department is well aware that topping up is happening on a widespread basis and is in denial regarding the position in which people are finding themselves. Will the Minister comment on this practice of topping up?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 10 together.

There are approximately 78,000 rent supplement recipients, at a cost of €344 million for 2014. A top-up payment occurs where the applicant declares a rent lower than that actually being charged by the landlord. No evidence has been presented to the Department showing widespread incidence of illegal top-ups, although I am aware of reports of the problem. All such offences should be reported to the Department, which has specific legislative powers to deal with them.

To qualify for rent supplement, the tenant, landlord or landlord's agent must complete the rent supplement application and declare that the information provided is correct and accurate. The application form clearly states that making a false statement or withholding information may lead to prosecution. In June 2012, in order to improve the governance arrangements, the Department introduced powers of inquiry for staff to request formally and oblige landlords to provide information in respect of rent supplement tenants.

Prospective tenants, including those seeking to access rent supplement, are finding it increasingly difficult, particularly in Dublin, to secure appropriate accommodation due to the reduced availability of rental properties. As I have indicated, it is very much a supply issue. Despite pressures on the social protection budget, the rent limits were increased in line with market rents in some areas, including Dublin and north Kildare, in June 2013. Further increasing the limits at this time will not resolve the supply issue and would result in additional increases in rental costs for all persons renting, including working people making payments out of their wages. I have no plans to revise the current limits or the maximum rent review process at this time.

In view of the ongoing difficulties, the Dublin local authorities are engaging with the Department in developing an inter-agency intervention system to identify vulnerable families who are in receipt of rent supplement and at risk of becoming homeless due to the imminent loss of their tenancy. These cases will be assessed on an individual basis having regard to individual circumstances, and families requiring additional support will receive the necessary assistance, financial or otherwise.

The fact that approximately 78,000 people are in receipt of rent supplement shows that a significant number of landlords are accommodating and negotiating with applicants of the scheme. I am aware of the practice by some leading property websites of asking potential landlords whether they will accept rent supplement tenancies.

That practice is extremely unfair and it is leading many landlords more or less to tick the relevant box on online forms and indicate they will not accept rent supplement. We are asking a number of agencies to reconsider their practices in this regard, particularly as they involve a very unfair attitude abroad towards people who are in receipt of rent supplement.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

The Department is aware that some leading property websites ask potential landlords to indicate whether they will accept rent supplement tenancies. It is the Department’s expressed position that this practice should cease and the matter has been raised with the leading websites. However, it is open to any person who has been refused a private tenancy and who feels discriminated against on the basis of his or her gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community to refer a discrimination complaint to the Equality Tribunal under the Equal Status Acts.

I assure the Deputies that departmental officials administering rent supplement have considerable experience in dealing with customers of the scheme and will continue to make every effort to ensure their accommodation needs are met. While the majority of persons are in a position to engage successfully and negotiate with landlords, any customers experiencing difficulties should continue to engage with departmental officials.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I just do not know in which country the Minister is living. She certainly is not aware of the reality that exists for people who live in the larger urban centres throughout the country. She is in complete denial. It is an awful pity that, instead of carrying out a head count with regard to who was present in the Chamber yesterday, the media did not observe some of the committee meetings which took place in the complex yesterday. For example, the Joint Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht discussed housing with representatives from Focus Ireland and the Simon Community.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Those from the Simon Community indicated that the problem in respect of housing has reached crisis levels. It is no longer just people who have - I hate to use this word - traditionally been considered homeless who have nowhere to go. In that context, I am aware of increasing numbers of families, particularly those with children, who are being made homeless. The representatives from both organisations indicated that the crisis to which I refer is on the verge of becoming a disaster. I do not know what we have to do to get the media to pay attention to what is happening to a significant number of people. I met a family last week - I deal with such families every week - who slept in a car with their child. They approached the local authority and asked what they should do the following night and they were told to find a relative or friend with whom they could stay. The family in question has been homeless for eight weeks. I could give a litany of people who are in the same position. The Minister and the Government are in denial.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I deal extensively with people in my constituency in the context of queries relating to housing. The Deputy indicated that the family to which she refers has an issue with a local authority. I am not quite sure which local authority is involved. The solution is to build a supply of houses.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister is in government.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Deputy allow me to answer? I listened very carefully to her.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Rent controls are needed.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Figures issued on 1 November 2013 indicate that there are fewer than 1,500-----

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Introducing rent controls would be the socialist approach.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----properties available to rent in Dublin.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

How many of the landlords involved accept rent allowance? Is it one?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On the same date four years previously, there were some 6,700 properties available for rent. The actual solution to this problem will involve the recommencement of housing construction, which the Government is-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When it is the Government going to do that? When is it going to build council houses?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Large sums of money have been allocated in respect of housing construction. I hope the level of investment in this regard will rise significantly during the coming period as we seek to increase the rate of construction from approximately 6% of GNP to probably double that figure. That will address the supply issue. Chasing rent increases will not give rise to an expansion in supply.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Exactly. Introduce rent controls.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

At present, landlords are ticking boxes - and certain agencies are inviting them to do so - to the effect that no one in receipt of rent allowance need apply, which is wrong and unfair.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fine Gael will not allow the Minister to introduce rent controls.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Broughan should take it easy and remember the Constitution.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister is in a prison designed by Fine Gael.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Broughan should remember what is in the Constitution.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are approximately 90,000 individuals and families on the housing waiting list nationally. If we are truthful with ourselves, we must accept there is going to be an avalanche of repossessions. This means the numbers on the waiting list are going to increase. The number of social housing units that will be built in the next year will only run into the hundreds. This will in no way be sufficient to meet requirements. We are going to be obliged to rely on private rented accommodation for a period until supply meets demand. I am of the view that said period will be of a significant length. The Minister is in government and she cannot consider this matter in the context of a silo-based approach. There is a need for a wide-ranging strategy in respect of housing. In the short term, the Government must change its approach to this matter, particularly as increasing numbers of families are finding it impossible to rent properties. Regardless of whether the Minister believes it, this is happening. Focus Ireland, the Simon Community and daft.iehave all indicted that it is happening. We cannot just keep denying what is taking place. The Government must take action to provide for the people to whom I refer.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is no doubt that supply is a problem. However, price is also a problem. Rent supplement has been reduced, while rents are increasing. I know many people in Wexford who have been obliged to make up the shortfall which has resulted from this. In Dublin, rents are going through the roof. There is a good reason for this. Huge numbers of apartments - including a number I developed - have been sold, en blocas opposed to individually, for less than half the amount that it would cost to build them today. An individual customer who buys an apartment or a house is obliged to pay market value. However, speculators have bought blocks of properties for half the market value. As a result, an increasing number of rental properties are in the hands of fewer people. This has led to the development of a cartel in the rental market. Due to the fact that they own so many rental properties, speculators can dictate the price.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yesterday, I was contacted by three young men in their early 20s who are seeking to rent an apartment in the docklands area of Dublin. They were asked to pay €1,800 for the privilege. This is because there is a cartel in place as a result of the fact that a small number of people own all the apartments that are available.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The first step in solving this problem is for the Minister to recognise that an emergency exists-----

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is right.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and that emergency measures are required to deal with it. I have been informed by officials from Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council that, for the first time ever, they have nothing to offer families seeking accommodation. They cannot even provide homeless accommodation. The officials in question are just telling people to go away. What is the Minister going to do about this? We all know there is a need for social housing. The Government is planning to build approximately 500 council houses at a time when 95,000 are needed. The 500 houses to which I refer will not even match the number of people who will go onto the waiting list this year as a result of their own homes being repossessed because they cannot repay their mortgages. Private landlords are pulling out of the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, and leasing arrangements because they can obtain higher rents elsewhere. In such circumstances, the Government's plan is absolutely done for.

What does the Government propose to do? That is what we want to know. We do not want the Minister to utter nonsense about supply. The Government should commence building social housing units now and, in the interim, raise the rent cap in order that people might source private rented accommodation. We know that the latter is not a long-term solution. What solution does the Government have for families who are currently homeless and on the streets with their children?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If Deputy Boyd Barrett actually goes around Dublin city, which I am sure he will, he will-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do so every day.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am glad to hear it. Perhaps he might count the number of boarded up units throughout the city which are owned by local authorities. This is not a matter which is proper to the Department of Social Protection, but I am happy to say that the practice known as "voiding", where perfectly good homes can be closed up and the contents, including fireplaces-----

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That only happens to a fraction of such houses.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is very familiar with what is involved. He should not go into denial.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, we are aware of what is involved. It is only a fraction.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a significant number.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

So it has nothing to do with landlords.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If money was given to the local authorities, they could open up those void units very quickly.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister has the floor.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

All these houses are important, particularly to the families who get them. There are far too many boarded-up houses in different parts-----

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I checked the position in Wexford last week and I discovered that there are fewer than ten boarded-up homes.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government is starving local authorities of funding.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The first and immediate action to be taken in the context of supply is to bring to an end the practice of boarding up houses and apartments and to ensure new tenants are moved into such dwellings immediately upon their becoming vacant.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government should give money to the local authorities to allow them to do that.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Exactly.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Local authorities have significant funds.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It may have escaped the Deputy's attention but much of taxpayers' money goes directly to them.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fine Gael and Labour control those local authorities.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is the reality.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister should talk to the city managers. They will tell her a different story, as will the accounts of local authorities.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

People pay significant amounts of tax. More importantly-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister should be allowed to conclude.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Wallace suggested there is a cartel in operation. I will bring that matter to the attention of NAMA and the Minister for Finance in order that they might investigate what is happening.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

NAMA is the cartel.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please, Deputy.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Am I actually allowed to talk to another Deputy and reply to a question?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Answer the question.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Am I allowed to reply to Deputy Wallace's intervention?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister to conclude. You have the floor.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Many teenagers would not behave like that. I wish to reply to Deputy Wallace. The Deputy has made a significant point, which I will bring to the attention of my colleagues in government, specifically the Minister for Finance, as well as NAMA and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government. It is an interesting observation and I will have it examined - with due respect to Deputy Wallace, if his colleague will allow me to speak.