Dáil debates

Tuesday, 24 September 2013

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Northern Ireland Issues

5:15 pm

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

4. To ask the Taoiseach if he has discussed with the British Prime Minister this summer's Northern Ireland stimulus package as announced by the British Government; if the Irish Government will measure the impact of the Northern stimulus package on the Border counties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39052/13]

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

5. To ask the Taoiseach if he has discussed with the British Prime Minister this summer's Northern Ireland stimulus package as announced by the British Government; if the Irish Government will consider the package with reference to Strand II of the Good Friday Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39053/13]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

6. To ask the Taoiseach when the next North-South Ministerial Council is taking place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39054/13]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

7. To ask the Taoiseach if he has been asked to meet relatives of those killed in the Omagh bombing; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39060/13]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

8. To ask the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with the British Prime Minister David Cameron in relation to the issue of contentious parades in the North of Ireland since Dáil Éireann adjourned for the summer recess. [39068/13]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

9. To ask the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with political leaders in the North of Ireland in relation to the issue of contentious parades since Dáil Éireann adjourned for the summer recess; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39069/13]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

10. To ask the Taoiseach his plans to meet with US envoy to the North of Ireland Dr. Richard Haas. [39073/13]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

11. To ask the Taoiseach the contact he has had with the British Prime Minister during the summer recess. [39076/13]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

12. To ask the Taoiseach the contact he has had with political leaders in the North since the summer recess. [39082/13]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

13. To ask the Taoiseach his plans to meet with the First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness. [39083/13]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

14. To ask the Taoiseach when he last had discussions with British Prime Minister Cameron; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39084/13]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

15. To ask the Taoiseach when he last visited Northern Ireland; if there are plans for future visits; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39085/13]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

16. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on any recent meetings with the political leaders in Northern Ireland. [39142/13]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

17. To ask the Taoiseach if he has met or has plans to meet Dr. Richard Haas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39492/13]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

18. To ask the Taoiseach if officials in his Department will be meeting Dr. Richard Haas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39493/13]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

19. To ask the Taoiseach if he has met representatives from the Unionist parties recently; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39494/13]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 19, inclusive, together.

The events of recent months surrounding disputes over parades in particular and the tensions and disorder they have provoked, alongside the unresolved issues of how to deal with the past, are exerting a harmful and even regressive effect on politics and community relations in Northern Ireland.

That is why I very much welcome the commencement of the all-party talks under the independent chairmanship of former US Envoy to Northern Ireland, Dr. Richard Haass, to consider and make recommendations on these contentious issues. As Dr. Haass has publically stated, Northern Ireland has been transformed as a result of the Good Friday and St. Andrew's Agreements. Issues such as flags, parades and the past are deep rooted issues that need to be addressed. Dr. Haass brings to bear a wealth of skill and experience on these issues. However, people and their political leaders will need to be prepared to move ground and compromise if these talks are to succeed. I issue a call to all parties to approach these talks in a spirit of genuine compromise to enable a clear way forward or road map to be found on all of the contentious issues - flags, parades and the past.

The Tánaiste will meet Dr. Haass in New York tomorrow. I understand Dr. Haass will visit Dublin next month and I will avail of the opportunity to meet with him at that time.

I have not discussed Northern Ireland's stimulus package or the parades issue with Prime Minister Cameron since the summer recess.

I met the First Minister and Deputy First Minister at the North-South Ministerial Council plenary which I hosted in Dublin Castle in July. We had an open and a very productive discussion across a range of issues that are important to people in all parts of this island. We recapped on the achievements of the Irish EU Presidency and the good co-operation between both jurisdictions during the Presidency. We will continue to engage closely on European Union issues in the future.

We discussed the Northern Ireland Executive's strategy for good relations and the economic package agreed between the British Government and the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. This is important work in delivering the forward-looking, prosperous and reconciled society we all wish to see in Northern Ireland. I took the opportunity to again congratulate the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on their achievement for all the people of Northern Ireland.

We also discussed the fiscal and economic challenges facing both jurisdictions and the opportunities for more practical co-operation. We discussed youth employment and how we might work together to tackle this issue which is of vital importance to both jurisdictions. The meeting provided an opportunity for me to update the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister on the round table discussions on youth employment hosted by Chancellor Merkel in Berlin on 3 July and also to outline the major steps taken on youth employment under the Irish Presidency.

The Council received an update on the current state of play in regard to the remaining elements of the St. Andrew's review. Officials have initiated a work programme and will conclude their work and present proposals to the next North-South Ministerial Council institutional meeting in the autumn.

I have already reported to the House on my most recent visit to Northern Ireland to attend the British-Irish Council summit in June. I will visit Armagh to attend the next North-South Ministerial Council plenary in November where I expect to meet the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister. I also hope to visit Belfast in the near future.

I have not met any other political leaders in the North since the summer recess. The Tánaiste visited Belfast on 29 August and met a range of community contacts, including the business sector and has also had discussions with political leaders including at the British Irish Association Conference. He met the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on 23 September, when they focused on the need for a clear way forward to emerge from the all-party talks on contentious issues in Northern Ireland being chaired by Dr. Richard Haass and how the two Governments can best support that process.

I have received a request to meet relatives of those killed in the Omagh bombing and I am open to meeting them in due course when that is appropriate. As I have previously stated, what happened at Omagh was a brutal act of mass murder. The criminal terrorists who carried it out had no sense of humanity and displayed a complete disregard for life. For the families of those who were killed in the atrocity at Omagh, the pain of that loss can never go away.

As the House is aware, my colleague, the Minister for Justice and Equality, met the Omagh support and self-help group in July 2012 and received a copy of the document they have compiled on events surrounding the Omagh bombing in August 1998. He received a presentation from them on the matters raised and on their call for a public inquiry. I met them briefly in the corridor on the day they were making one of those presentations. The Minister is currently in the process of finalising his consideration of the issues that have been raised by the group. He hopes to be in a position to conclude this process soon and once a conclusion has been reached he will communicate directly with the Omagh group.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach for a comprehensive response. The 15th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement is a time for us to reflect. Obviously, the process is very much in its infancy. We are all very aware of the challenges which arose this summer and of the work which still needs to be done. I would like to acknowledge the participation of Dr. Richard Haass in very important consultation around flags, emblems and the legacy issues of Northern Ireland.

I would like to focus on the Border conversation. Colleagues who represent Border constituencies, including Deputy Gerry Adams, sometimes exclude other colleagues, whether from counties Clare or Kerry, when we start to talk about the Border. There is an opportunity to extend the conversation to other counties. People from Cushendall to Cahirciveen signed up to the Good Friday Agreement and there is a role for local authorities to be more proactive and to engage more in terms of joint participation North and South. However, I do not know how we will go about that. It is not about setting up another mechanism. The Taoiseach and I are in agreement that we do not want another mechanism or another bureaucratic piece of machinery, as there are plenty of them. The North-South Ministerial Council has its job to do.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Deputy put his questions because we are short on time?

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Community groups are doing good work.

Can we look at leadership within local authorities? I refer to the likes of Peter Hynes in the Taoiseach's county and Seamus Neely in my county who are all doing good work in their own right. Can we have greater participation among local authority leadership North and South? I would like to name one person because the mechanism is in place in Northern Ireland. Derek McCallan is the chief executive officer of Northern Ireland Local Government Association. We, in the South, need to reach out, whether at the level of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport or the Department of Health, and look for leaders in the local authority sector.

Can we embrace the Good Friday Agreement which was democratically supported by people in every county in the Twenty-Six Counties and in the Six Counties 15 years later? Can we create some sort of political partnership panel, involving local authority leadership at a civic level?

Democracy at local level is the closest reach people have to democracy. We should consider the adoption of a strategic approach, not just to Border issues but also to North-South integration. Aspects of North-South integration in areas like transport, health and education are at the kernel of the Good Friday Agreement. The Minister, Deputy Quinn, has said he wants to co-operate. There is no participatory democratic way of doing that at local authority level. I would like the Taoiseach to reach out to our counterparts in Northern Ireland in that regard.

5:25 pm

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As there are just five minutes and 27 seconds remaining in this slot, I suggest that the three Deputies who are seeking to ask questions might ask them all together before I call the Taoiseach to reply. Otherwise, we will run out of time.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a brief point of order, the situation in the North, which is undergoing some turbulence at the moment, is quite serious. I would like us to return to this issue on another day. Today's session is not sufficient for me.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appreciate that, but we spent 40 or 50 minutes on the Seanad.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand that.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I tried to bring some sense to it, but people were making all sorts of statements

.

Deputy Micheál Martin: Part of the problem, a Cheann Comhairle, is that-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If you want to arrange statements on Northern Ireland, do it through the Whips.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would not have a problem with that.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not want to do so.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We had better not waste any more time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thought the Ceann Comhairle was going to go around. Seven of these 15 questions are in my name.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appreciate that. I cannot do anything about it, Deputy.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I know you cannot. I am not saying anything to you at all, in fact. I was merely making the point that the Taoiseach could have done this differently,

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can the Deputy get on with putting a question?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If the Taoiseach really wanted accountability to the House, rather than including in the same group 15 questions about diverse issues like the Omagh bombing, capital investment, the Haass talks and contacts with the British Prime Minister, he could have segregated them. I would like to register with the Taoiseach a strong protest about the manner in which he has grouped these questions. It reduces accountability and reduces the potential for any meaningful treatment of the issues. The Taoiseach keeps going on about accountability to this House. This is the opposite of accountability.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Would you put this question and allow others to speak?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It has been clear to anyone paying attention that this Government has disengaged significantly from matters relating to Northern Ireland and there is a growing-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry, there is a telephone ringing in the Chamber.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy should throw his telephone in a lake. It has been going off all day.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He should switch it off.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The amount of negative commentary about the level of this engagement has increased. I ask the Taoiseach to comment on that. The Irish News recently pointed out that the non-involvement of our Government in a formal way in discussions on the economic development of the North and the stimulus package, or indeed the Haass talks, is without precedent in almost 30 years. That is something that needs a response. I would like to hear the Taoiseach's views on what the Irish News reported because I believe it is true. The only people who appear to be happy are the DUP and Sinn Féin, both of which agree that Dublin should not have a role in the announcement of a new economic pact for Northern Ireland. The failure to look at the totality of the island from an economic perspective is a central aspect of the North-South issue. This is reflected in a practical way in the lack of engagement on the Narrow Water Bridge project. Can the Taoiseach update us on any initiative being taken by the Government on that project in the context of the stimulus package? We need to ensure we can draw down European funding so that this vital North-South link is developed.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would like to repudiate absolutely Deputy Martin's assertion that the DUP and Sinn Féin are the only people who are happy. Sinn Féin is most unhappy about the situation. The Deputy must know that the difficulties in the North are not caused by Sinn Féin. These have not been good months for the political process. It is clear that there is a crisis within political loyalism and Unionism. We have seen months of organised sectarian violence on the streets of Belfast. The mayor of Belfast was attacked and assaulted while carrying out his civic duties. Hundreds of members of the PSNI have been injured. When Martin McGuinness stood shoulder to shoulder with Peter Robinson and the chief constable after so-called dissidents killed PSNI officers and British soldiers, he was leading in an assertive, robust and clear manner. Why has Peter Robinson not stood shoulder to shoulder with Martin McGuinness and done exactly the same thing? The reneging on the programme for Government commitment to the development of the site of the old prison in Long Kesh, as set out in the infamous letter from the USA, is clearly a big problem. There are many issues. There have been some recent arrests. I have done my best to brief the Government privately and in these sessions on all of these matters. The interventions of the British Secretary of State, Theresa Villiers, over the summer months were most unhelpful. Obviously, we have to do a great deal of work to encourage unionism in all of its manifestations to be part of this process for change. The Government, as a co-guarantor, has a duty and an obligation to make sure the British Government keeps to its obligations too. To the best of my knowledge, Deputy Martin, has not reached out to the First Minister or the Deputy First Minister by asking for a meeting with them on these matters. It is reasonable to expect all leaders in this Chamber to try to be up to date on what is happening in the North-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am very up to date.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----as opposed to trying to score party political points against Sinn Féin. I commend to the Taoiseach the need for the Government to be very alert and vigilant. It needs to be reasonable and clear about how we proceed. There is an international agreement, as Deputy McHugh has said, and the Government has a responsibility to ensure it is upheld.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is it not clear that this year's sectarian tensions point to significant sections of Protestant and Catholic working-class populations, especially the young members of those populations, being seriously alienated? Is it not clear that the Good Friday Agreement has not delivered for them by bringing an end to unemployment, poverty, the housing crisis and other problems? How it could be otherwise when the power-sharing Executive is merely a conveyor belt for Tory-Liberal austerity, as our Government is in conjunction with the troika? Is it not the truth that the main political parties played the sectarian card on a regular basis this summer and used marches and emblems, etc., to do so? That is the reality. Can I put it to the Taoiseach that it must be a bad joke to bring in a right-wing member of the American Republican Party to bring the communities of Northern Ireland together? The American Republican Party has fostered more inequality and polarisation and imposed unequal suffering on the American people since slavery and has not done anything for the North of Ireland. Is it not clear that sectarianism cannot be overcome other than by working-class communities coming together to direct their energies to mobilising for the eradication of the problems and policies that create such poverty and hardship?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy McHugh made a point about the further potential for North-South engagement. As a Border Deputy, he will be well aware that the facilities which now exist, including the North-South Ministerial Council, the non-formal connections between Ministers and Ministers of State on cross-Border issues and the connections between agencies and organisations on either side of the Border, have increased greatly over recent years. I met the Deputy and a number of councillor representatives from North and South earlier in the summer, and this speaks volumes in this regard as well.

I commend the Ceann Comhairle on the work he did, along with the Speaker, in putting together the North-South Parliamentary Forum. As the forum is a political tier, it does not relate directly to the local authority system. It has some potential if it finds its feet and if it can develop in the way we would think. There are many community engagements that are very fruitful. I met members of a choral society from Ballymena earlier this year. It has been twinned with a similar group in my home town since 1969. While the connections might not have been as strong as they should have been in the intervening years, a very strong connection is building up again, purely on the basis of community and social activities, including music, culture and everything else. This is certainly something we can look at on the basis of what Deputy McHugh has said. I am not sure a sort of formal structure for local authorities is the way to go here because, as the Deputy knows, a great deal of cross-Border activity applies at the moment.

Deputy Martin raised the question of Narrow Water Bridge. The bridge order was signed by Minister Wilson on 28 May last. Louth County Council announced on 9 July that the Narrow Water Bridge proposal was on hold because of cost issues regarding the extent of the tenders received. As the Deputy knows, funding was approved by the Irish Government, by the Northern Ireland Executive, which issued the bridge order, and by the EU.

There is a deal of discussion about this in which Deputy Adams has an interest. I would like to see what the conclusion of those negotiations and discussions might be.

The Minister for Finance is meeting with the First Minister this Friday in Stormont. Obviously, this arises from issues discussed at the North South Ministerial Council and the engagements between Ministers here and their colleague Ministers and the Executive in general. We were able to negotiate €150 million under the peace dividend arising out of our Presidency of the Union for areas dealing with sensitive community issues in Northern Ireland. That is an issue on which we were glad to work with our colleagues in Northern Ireland and to have approval given for it.

I do not take the Deputy's point about Dr. Haass. He is very experienced in dealing with complex negotiations and will add greatly to the capacity of the Executive and negotiations to deal with parades, the past and other sensitive issues. I commend the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on being able to put that together and on the close association and collaboration they both showed in New York quite recently. That is something we should commend in terms of its potential. I point back to the years when George Mitchell gave six months of his life in very difficult circumstances to working through the very sensitive and complex negotiations that led to the Good Friday Agreement. That was with the imprimaturof all the political personalities in the US, including Dr. Haass, so I see real potential in that and hope we can develop it in the time ahead.

There are a range of issues we need to discuss, be they the Maze Prison, the good relations strategy, the Parades Commission and the question of the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and the St Andrews Agreement. Perhaps it might be appropriate if leaders who do not want them all bunched together had the capacity to table priority questions to the Taoiseach. I do not dictate what questions come in here. Every Deputy in the House has the same right in terms of asking questions of the Taoiseach of the day. Obviously, we could spend the entire week going through a whole load of these.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.