Dáil debates
Thursday, 23 February 2012
Leaders' Questions
10:30 am
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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We heard with surprise and shock this morning about the decision of An Bord Pleanála to refuse planning permission for the national children's hospital which is needed more urgently than ever in view of the serious crisis in the existing pediatric hospitals. The refusal of An Bord Pleanála means one can only appeal to the High Court on a point of law. Otherwise, one must start again on the tortuous road of seeking permission from the local authority and then going back to An Bord Pleanála. The children of Ireland should not be asked to wait such a protracted period for the provision of the national children's hospital that was envisaged. As the hospital is critical national infrastructure, will consideration be given to proposing an immediate amendment to the Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) Act whereby it could be defined as critical infrastructure? It would be a very simple change. This would avoid having to take the long road back and an interactive process could be entered into with An Bord Pleanála to resolve the issues it has with the planning application. It would expedite the urgent provision of a national children's hospital for the children of Ireland.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with the Deputy that there is an urgent need to build a national children's hospital. It is a great pity that so many years were wasted in the preparation of the plans for the hospital and their submission to the planning authorities and that the project was put at risk by the fact that the previous Government had not provided sufficient funding for it. I wish to make it clear that the Government will build a national children's hospital. The children of the country deserve no less. There are huge problems in the paediatric hospitals and a crying need for such a hospital.
It is disappointing that An Bord Pleanála has made the decision to refuse planning permission. I have just seen the decision and the reasons for it given by the board which is, of course, an independent body. We have an independent planning system which we must respect. The Government will now have to consider what options are open to it in the light of the decision. From my initial reading of it, the principal reasons for refusing permission appear to relate to the height and scale of the proposed development. This will have to be looked at to see if some changes can be made that would satisfy An Bord Pleanála in a subsequent application. The issue of an alternative site might have to be examined and the approach recommended by the Deputy might also have be considered. We will have to reflect on the available options.
The Government has identified the source of funding for the national children's hospital, even in these difficult times when we have had to scale back on capital projects. We have made it absolutely clear that we intend to proceed with building the hospital. It is unfortunate that we must now deal with the outcome of An Bord Pleanála's decision, but we will reflect on it, deal with it and advance the project.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I am disappointed that the Tánaiste, when the well-being of the children of Ireland is in question, cannot desist from party political point scoring. However, I will leave that to him today.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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As the Tánaiste knows, even if one were to opt for an alternative site, one might end up with the same problem again. The critical infrastructure Act-----
Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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The problem would be less likely to arise with a more suitable site.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government decided to proceed with the project on the Mater Hospital site last July after reviewing it. The concept behind the critical infrastructure Act is to remove the uncertainties, whereby one might lose a very good project owing to a practicality, and make it possible to interact with An Bord Pleanála, rather than simply applying and receiving a "Yes" or a "No" answer.
I urge the Tánaiste to give serious consideration to the proposal I have made. If there ever was a piece of critical infrastructure that was necessary and should not be held up by minor issues, this is it. The matter should be resolved through discussion with An Bord Pleanála, but this cannot occur under the current arrangement; however, it could be by acting on my suggestion. It would also avoid having to go back to the local authority. Will the Tánaiste give urgent consideration to this proposal today and, perhaps, returning to the House tomorrow with real legislation which we will agree to pass to make a minor, one line amendment to the critical infrastructure Act to facilitate the hospital being defined as critical infrastructure to ensure a speedy decision? This would ensure the children of Ireland would have the hospital within the agreed timeframe of 2015-16, as promised.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Government will consider the suggestion made by Deputy and will consider any other from any other quarter about how we can move this forward in current circumstances. Our priority and concern is to move forward as quickly as possible with the construction of a national children's hospital. However, the Deputy should not be daft about this. He knows as well as I do that this consideration cannot be turned around overnight. We will consider what must be done following An Bord Pleanála's decision.
There is no point in accusing me of being partisan on this issue. The reality is that a great deal of time has been lost and wasted in the preparation of plans for the national children's hospital. A great deal of time which could have been used more productively was spent on decisions about which sites should and should not be selected. Then there were issues surrounding the planning and design of the hospital. There were also issues about the pool of money available to build it. The Government has decided, clearly and without ambiguity, that it will build a national children's hospital. We decided to proceed with the project on the Mater Hospital site because they were the plans we inherited and we believed it was the quickest route to take. We will now have to deal with An Bord Pleanála's decision. We have identified how we will finance the hospital and will go ahead with the project. We will consider the outcome of An Bord Pleanála's decision and then decide the best route to take. Let there be no doubt about it - the Government is determined to build a national children's hospital. We believe the project is urgent and the children of the country deserve no less.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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"Labour is opposed to short termist privatisation of key State assets".
Ruairi QuinnMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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"Labour is committed to the concept of public enterprise and is determined to ensure that semi-State companies play a full role in the recovery of the Irish economy".
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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When you were blowing them up, we were supporting them.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am glad the Tánaiste's backbenchers recognise those quotes which, of course, are taken from the Labour Party election manifesto. They formed the basis on which the Labour Party was given its electoral mandate almost one year ago. Two Labour Party Ministers are now presiding over the sell-off of key elements of Ireland's energy companies, possibly Coillte and the remaining State stake in Aer Lingus.
The Government's record in the past year has been deplorable. It has cut teachers from schools, nurses from hospitals, social welfare payments and community employment schemes.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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What is Sinn Féin doing in the North?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government is now turning its gaze to the family silver.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy's party is in government in Belfast.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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"It is a sad day for the Irish people and a tragedy for the Labour Party." These are the words of Mr. Jack O'Connor, president of SIPTU and one of the Tánaiste's own. They reflect the disappointment of many who voted for the Labour Party in the general election. Why is the Labour Party proposing this sell-off? Why are successful, self-financing State companies, such a positive in the economy, to be disposed of? How can the Labour Party claim that infrastructure, particularly energy infrastructure, is anything but strategic, necessary and a vital lever for the State and the Government in the economic recovery we all wish to see?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I thank the Deputy for reading the Labour Party's policy. I hope she will do so repeatedly.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It would be better if the Tánaiste implemented it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I always welcome it, as repetition is the greatest form of flattery. The Government is committed to ensuring a strong role for the State sector in our economic recovery. That is why we have decided to adopt a single portfolio approach under the new economic and recovery agency for all State companies. Things never stay the same and should not always stay the same.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Quite right. The Labour Party moves from one side of the House to the other.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We all talk about change; we have to harness the resources of the State to attract investment and jobs into the country. The biggest tragedy is not what was issued by the SIPTU press office yesterday, rather it is that there are 438,000 out of work.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government is adding to the number.
Seán CroweEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Government is determined to get the people in question back to work. We have seen, even in the course of the last week, a number of positive initiatives in this regard.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Enough of the press statements; we need action.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There was the jobs announcement by PayPal and commitments by people abroad to invest in this country. We have decided and negotiated with the troika to put an arrangement in place, whereby proceeds from the sale of State assets may be used-----
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----for investment in the economy to create jobs and bring about economic recovery. That is the prudent approach to adopt.
With regard to the energy sector, the arrangements proposed will not involve the disposal of strategic networks. They will result in greater competition in the sector which will benefit consumers who are paying high prices for electricity and gas. We will use the proceeds from the sale of State assets to invest in the economy and create more jobs to get the 438,000 people who are out of work back to work.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The expression is imitation, not repetition, is the sincerest form of flattery. That being the case, Fine Gael has been mightily flattered by the Tánaiste and his party in government. All the credit for the goals scored accrues to Fine Gael and the troika, in that order. The Tánaiste says he is concerned to invest in the economy and wants a finance stream to invest in job creatopm. That is good. He knows as well as I do that there are many alternative streams which can be tapped for that purpose. The National Pension Reserve Fund should not be used to prop up zombie banks.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It should be used to fund job creation initiatives and provide a stimulus. The Tánaiste says consumers will win from the privatisations, but that is not the case. Historically, it has never been the case in previous bouts of privatisation. The Tánaiste knows as well as I do that these policy decisions are indefensible, short-term and reckless.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The troika originally wanted a figure of €2 billion. The Government conceded a figure of €3 billion and tried to dress it up as a negotiating victory. The Tánaiste knows that these self-financing valuable assets must be held in the ownership of the State, as that is the only way a consistent dividend can be delivered for citizens and the economy in the long term.
Deputy Éamon Gilmore, Tánaiste, leader of the Labour Party-----
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----has said nothing stays the same. Apparently, not for him.
Dara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy might put us all on a black list.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste defend, on the basis of the Labour Party manifesto, the way his Ministers propose to engage in a fire sale of the family silver?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Deputy Mary Lou McDonald is wrong.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There is no fire sale and will not be. Any disposal of State assets will be undertaken on the basis of the country obtaining the best value for money and the best deal possible.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That cannot happen now.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Deputy is wrong in what the troika asked for. She says it asked for a figure of €2 billion. It asked for and expected a figure of €5 billion. It did so because those on the other side of the House had agreed to a package with such a figure included.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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We have heard all this before.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The leader of Fianna Fáil, on radio this morning, accused two of my colleagues of telling barefaced lies.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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And the Tánaiste, too.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He went on to suggest the McCarthy report followed on the arrival of the troika.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is wrong. He did not say that.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is not the case. The McCarthy report-----
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It was commissioned by this side.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----which contains a reference to the figure of €5 billion already established by the Fianna Fáil-led Government-----
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Never mind Fianna Fáil. The Tánaiste should speak for the Labour Party and the Government.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil Deputies come into the House and either deliberately make things up or simply do not inform themselves.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Is this Fine Gael or the Labour Party? Is NewEra the new Labour Party?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In June 2010, long before the troika had arrived on the scene, the Fianna Fáil-led Government commissioned the McCarthy report.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I did not ask when the report had been commissioned; I asked about the sale of State assets.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Cowen should check it out with Brian before making statements. He should give him a ring and he will tell the Deputy about it.
Seán BarrettBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know Deputy Tom Hayes's brother. I am sure he is a nice man.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am answering Deputy McDonald's question. She stated that the troika looked for €2 billion and we settled for €3 billion. The troika looked for €5 billion because Fianna Fáil had agreed €5 billion. We have succeeded in two respects. There will be a target of €3 billion and €1 billion of that will be used for reinvestment in the economy to create jobs and get people back to work. Those are the facts.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The decision by An Bord Pleanála not to proceed with the national children's hospital represents a bad day for sick children, for their families, for the nurses, doctors and staff, and for jobs and capital investment on the north-side of Dublin. Once again, it shows that sick children are paying the price for the gross incompetence of others.
Today, I raise another important health issue, the urgent need for more facilities for cystic fibrosis patients. In the past, I raised this matter, with a strong emphasis on a 34-bed unit for cystic fibrosis patients at St. Vincent's Hospital, and we were promised action by the Government on it. Is the Tánaiste aware that yesterday in St. Vincent's Hospital there were 83 persons in the accident and emergency complex and 40 were waiting for a bed? Seven cystic fibrosis patients had to stay at home while they waited for a bed because of their fear of cross-infection. Is that acceptable in this day and age? Is the Tánaiste aware of the danger of cross-infections for cystic fibrosis patients? Is it acceptable that staff, who are overstretched and brilliant, had to move other patients out of their beds to accommodate one cystic fibrosis patient? Can the Tánaiste give me a commitment today in the Dáil that the new cystic fibrosis wing will be completed on time as these patients now need their 34 en suite bedrooms as a matter of priority?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On the national children's hospital, I make it clear that the Government is determined to go ahead with the building of the national children's hospital. Obviously, we must consider the outcome of An Bord Pleanála's decision and we have provided the funding for it.
It is not acceptable that anybody must wait for medical treatment or that anybody, in particular, cystic fibrosis patients, would have to stay at home. It is not acceptable that patients must wait on trolleys in a hospital or that the type of arrangements of which Deputy Finian McGrath spoke must be made on an emergency basis.
That is why the Government, first, in respect of hospital services for children, is determined to go ahead with the building of the national children's hospital. That is why the Government is determined to press ahead with the reform we have initiated in the health service to get it to operate more efficiently and in the best interests of patients.
The Government is committed to the cystic fibrosis unit in St. Vincent's Hospital. There is a target for completion of that and the Government is committed to that target.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I take the Tánaiste's point that people do not want to see cystic fibrosis patients hanging around accident and emergency wards, but there have been repeated delays. As evidenced in this morning's debate on the national children's hospital, many people are getting fed up and angry with the situation.
On the cystic fibrosis unit, can the Tánaiste confirm to the Dáil - I note he did not confirm when I asked about the 34 beds - that when the new wing at St. Vincent's Hospital which has 100 beds is completed, 34 en suite bedrooms will be kept for cystic fibrosis patients? I want him to put this on the Dáil record. Is he aware that there are in the region of 340 cystic fibrosis patients who use St. Vincent's Hospital and the figure of 34 beds comes from 10% of those who use it fairly regularly. That is the important matter, if the Government can deliver on this. Does he understand the hurt and frustration experienced by these families when they hear the Ministers promising a reduction in waiting lists or special delivery units? Will the Tánaiste request the Minister to send in one of those special delivery units or, at least, turn St. Vincent's Hospital into a safe environment for cystic fibrosis patients?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I understand the anger and frustration of family members who experience difficulty accessing the health service or the appropriate services in hospitals. Particularly, I understand the frustration and anger of parents who have children waiting for treatment. That is why the Government is determined to build the national children's hospital.
When we looked at the capital budget for this year for all of the various things we might do, whether building roads, providing transport or developing all of the other infrastructural development of the capital programme, the one area the Government decided to prioritise and ensure that the funding for it was protected was the hospital system and the health services to ensure that we can provide services, including those for cystic fibrosis patients. To be clear about it, the Government is committed to work through this to ensure that the services are provided and that we will reduce the waiting time and the difficulties being experienced by people, including by cystic fibrosis patients.