Dáil debates
Friday, 11 December 2009
Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009: Second Stage (Resumed)
12:00 pm
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I would like to share my time with Deputy Joe Behan.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I cannot believe the Government has failed to poverty-proof this budget. It has been a feature of all budgets since I have been here that the back of the budget document contained an annex on poverty proofing and which explained the effect of the budget on the poorest. Thankfully, today's newspapers have done it. For example, The Irish Times notes that the poorest one fifth of families will lose 2.7%, while the richest one fifth will gain 0.5% as a result of this budget. That is a very good indication of why we did not have a poverty-proofing of this budget, which I believe we were obliged to do.
It is quite clear that the Thatcherite approach of this budget has been swallowed hook, line and sinker by the people on the Government benches. They will march into the lobbies this afternoon. I appeal to them, and in particular to the so-called independents who are supporting the Government and who were bought by the price of hospitals and medical facilities that had been already announced, to realise for what they are actually voting. They will reduce people's income to â¬196 per week, while the richest of the rich are getting away scot free. I will now give way to Deputy Behan, who is a true independent in this House.
Joe Behan (Wicklow, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the Labour Party, particularly Deputy O'Sullivan and Deputy Stagg, for giving me the opportunity to speak for 60 seconds on this Bill. They have been very generous in offering valuable time, because I know that time for discussion is coming to an end.
Deputies McGrath and O'Sullivan have their own distinct opinions, but I think they generally agree with me when I say this is an unfair, unjust and inequitable budget. The documentation we received outlines the income reductions on many of the poorest people in our society. As far as I am concerned, it is a charter for injustice. The Members who support this tonight will have to hang their heads in shame. Payments such as widows' pensions, carer's benefit, invalidity pension, disability pension, supplementary welfare allowance - the most basic payment for the poor - carer's allowance, disability and blind pension allowance are being cut. It is unbelievable that Fianna Fáil - a party that always stood for all sectors in society, especially the weakest - would for the first time in its proud history decide to attack the poorest people in our country. It contrasts vividly with the abject and unconditional surrender to the judges of this country, who are not being asked to make any contribution on a compulsory manner to the difficulties that this nation faces. That says it all. On that basis, I will not be supporting this measure tonight.
While I am grateful for the minute I received from the Labour Party to speak on this, it is not acceptable that three Members elected by the people to this Chamber should have to grovel and beg to get this time to speak on important issues. The three independent Members will continue to fight for our right to speak on issues such as this in the future.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On a point of order, I would like the Minister to address her comments specifically to the issue raised by Deputy O'Sullivan on the absence of poverty proofing in the budget.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is not a point of order.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is standard practice since 1998. We have a right to know if this budget has been poverty proofed before we are asked to vote on it.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Deputies for contributing to the debate on Second Stage. Deputies from all sides of the House-----
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
With respect, I would like to make a point of order. As a Deputy in this House for more than 13 years, I would like to indicate that I have not had the opportunity to participate in this debate, nor has the Sinn Féin slot as ordered by the office of the Ceann Comhairle.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is not a point of order.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The speaking order for all the parties represented here was determined by your predecessor. The Sinn Féin slot has not even been reached. Only for the accommodation of the Labour Party to share a slot, we would not have had the opportunity-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I must advise you that when we finish Second Stage, we will be going on to Committee, Report and Final Stages of the Bill.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This is very important, with respect. I do not seek to disrupt the House. A Cheann Comhairle, I am asking you to take on board the fact that we have been censored and cut out. Three quarters of the Sinn Féin team in the Dáil have been prevented from participating on Second Stage of one of the most important Bills to come before this House, with far-reaching consequences for our constituents and ordinary people across the country.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
You must resume your seat. The order of the House is being openly flouted.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There can be no other decision taken by this Government than a decision to go to the people. If the Government proceeds to ram this down the throats of the people, it should have the courage of its convictions to go before the people and let them judge what it is foisting on each and every one of them. For shame.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Again, I would like to thank Deputies from all sides of the House who spoke on this debate, especially those who waited until late last night to make very reasonable contributions, unlike Deputies from parties with speaking slots who chose to abuse, criticise and disrupt the business, but who chose not to speak on Second Stage. Obviously, they had nothing of value to offer. I am sorry Deputy Stagg took the view that it would be more appropriate to disrupt than to make a contribution, unlike others in the Labour Party who made very reasonable contributions last night-----
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Shame on the Government.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Censored and silenced.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----as did the Fine Gael Party.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I ask the Deputies to desist.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This is a very difficult and sensitive Bill. It is with a very heavy heart that we come to make recommendations to the social welfare budget. It is unfortunate that due to the balancing of the books that must happen from the nation's point of view, we must reduce our expenditure.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The choices that had to be made involved making cuts across all different Departments. The choices are not just that we could take in more revenue from a particular group, because that was not going to find us â¬4 billion. That was not going to make the changes that we needed for the long term. We were faced with a situation where every single Department had to make savings. Within the social welfare budget, there were difficult choices.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister did not need to do it this way.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Nobody relishes having to do that, but we also made choices which were positive. We made choices that excluded pensioners. It is important that those over the age of 66 were recognised for their contribution to society and for the fact that they do not have the opportunity to generate incomes for themselves in the future.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister took the bonus from them and imposed an additional levy of â¬5 per week in respect of drug payments.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We made a positive decision in respect of pensioners and a positive decision in relation to children.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government left the millionaires alone and hit the most vulnerable.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The nature of that positive decision is to send all our young people abroad. That is extremely positive.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Millionaires are untouched and the most vulnerable are being hit.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is screwing the people who are poorest.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is a novel way to reduce the dole queues.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister, without interruption.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Those on the dole are being encouraged to leave the country. That is the Government's policy.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We also made a decision in respect of the children of the most vulnerable.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Why is it not possible to tax the bankers?
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Those opposite exiled a few people in the past.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If Deputy Stagg had something valuable to say, he would have chosen to say it during his contribution. However, he did not do so.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Why does the Government not tax the rich?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We made an extremely positive decision in respect of the children of the most vulnerable.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On a point of order, the Minister should withdraw the statement she has just made. She is well aware of the reason why I and 17 other Members of the Labour Party did not contribute. We were excluded from doing so by the guillotine being imposed.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is not a point of order. Ar aghaidh leat, a Aire.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We were prevented from contributing by a guillotine being imposed.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is not a procedural matter.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Another reason was that the Minister had an hour in which to contribute when she should only have had 30 minutes.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Stagg should resume his seat.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Stagg has been referred to by the Minister on three occasions in the past five minutes. Many of us had contributions to make.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have been silenced and prevented from participating.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister, without interruption.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister should get on with uttering her old guff now.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This is a dictatorship.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Huge progress has been made in the context of reducing consistent poverty among children and older people.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That will be reversed by the cuts to child benefit.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We will certainly not do anything to reverse this. Even though there has been a reduction in child benefit-----
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I love the Minister's use of the term "Even though". It is as if the cut happened by accident.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have ensured that the children of families on social welfare and in receipt of family income supplement will be protected.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This Bill is anti-children, anti-young people and anti-jobs.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Please what? Does the Ceann Comhairle want us to please allow the Minister to cut people's payments? Members on this side will not apologise for interrupting.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Of all the different groups I met prior to the budget, it was the members of this group which indicated that they were willing to make a contribution. I accept that it is extremely difficult to take â¬8.30 a week from people. We do not underestimate the difficulties this will cause.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister does not have a clue about such difficulties. If she did, she would not even contemplate these cuts
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
However, we were able to do this, particularly in view of the increases provided in recent years and the fact that, as a result of the serious deflation that has occurred, people's money goes further.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister should take the silver spoon out of her mouth and take note of the damage she is doing.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government has left the millionaires alone and has hammered the weakest in society.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Serious deflation has occurred and this means that the money-----
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Shame on the Government.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If the Minister had any shame she would resign.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are in an unusual situation whereby there is an economic crisis and serious deflation has occurred.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister has no empathy with the poor at all.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is "Lady" Shortall.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deflation did not occur in previous years. On other occasions there would have been inflation but now we have deflation. Whereas we have returned to the incomes of 2003 and the prices of 2007-----
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have not returned to the prices of 2003. Has the Minister even looked at her electricity bill?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----social welfare rates have not returned to what they were in those years.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Why were millionaires left alone?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Has the Minister considered the cost involved in sending a child to school. Free education my arse.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There was reference to specific groups. In its pre-budget submission, Fine Gael indicated that it would cut the social welfare rates relating to the unemployed and lone parents. Fine Gael accepted that we needed to take action in this regard but it also indicated that certain groups would be excluded from such cuts. When one considers the various groups of working-age people and tries to distinguish between them-----
Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We also stated that we would give jobs to these people.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----it is impossible to state which of them is more special than the other. We appreciate the work done by carers in particular. Carers are the first to recognise that not only have their basic payments increased in recent years and that the disregards were also increased.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about the cost of living?
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This is an insult to carers.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In addition, carers can avail of free travel and household benefits. The groups representing carers requested, in the strongest terms, that we should not touch the half-rate allowance or the respite grant.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister took away all the appliances of which they could avail.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We did not touch either of these payments and the reason is that we recognise the role of carers.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister does not recognise their role. If she did, she would not have touched their payments.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Why is the Minister cutting their incomes?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The respite care grant has increased to â¬1,700. When it was first introduced, the rate of payment was only â¬250. The grant is paid to those who do not receive carer's allowance. Therefore, it constitutes a real recognition for these individuals. We could have cut the respite care grant and left the rate unchanged. However, this would have had an impact on a greater number of carers so we chose not to do so.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government could have taxed the bankers.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about people who earn â¬500,000 a year?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We did not touch the disregards for carers. Very generous disregards apply in circumstances where carers or their spouses are allowed to work.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is protecting the rich and hammering the poor.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government could have taxed a few of its old cronies.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about Sinn Féin's friends at the Royal Bank of Scotland.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Fianna Fáil took money from the people and gave it to the banks.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A couple with two children can earn in the region of â¬37,200 and still receive the maximum rate of carer's allowance. In light of the disregards that exist, we are trying to ensure that carers, depending on family circumstances, have the opportunity to work outside the home as well. We recognise and appreciate these individuals for the work they do. The same applies in respect of the domiciliary care allowance for parents who have children with special needs. We did not cut this allowance, even though the people in this group are of working age. It was important that we did not reduce the rate of this allowance.
Some â¬650 million will be spent on carer's allowance, carer's benefit, the respite care grant and the half-rate carer's allowance in 2009. This compares to an amount of â¬46 million being spent on them just over ten years ago. That is a very big contribution.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The situation which obtains now is very different from that which obtained just over then years ago.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
While it is regrettable that we have been obliged to cut the weekly rate, it would not have been possible to exclude just one group. We could not, for example, have cut the rates paid to carers and not cut those relating to another of the working-age groups.
There has been a great deal of discussion with regard to the sensitivities that apply in respect cutting allowances for people with disabilities. I accept that we are talking here about an extremely vulnerable group.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
So much for the rights of people with disabilities.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The rate of payment on disability benefit has increased from â¬89.70 in 1997 to â¬204 this year.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about the real hardship that will result from what is being done?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
People are trying to survive on a pittance.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The rate of payment has increased by 130%. However, it is not just about the payment.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, it is about rights.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In meeting the relevant groups, I discovered that what is of as much concern to them as the rate of payment is the level of community and health supports in place.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
And the Minister is cutting those as well.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about the appliances that will no longer be available?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If cuts were not made in the social welfare budget, the burden would have fallen on making cuts in, for example, the health budget.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about the bankers and those who are earning more than â¬400,000? They could have been taxed.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It would have been far worse for people with disabilities if we had been obliged to cut back on home help, home care packages, respite care or day care places.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The home care packages have disappeared.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister can tick that one off. It has already been done.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
An additional â¬10 million has been invested in home care packages.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There have been no home care packages available in Kildare since last January.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Dental and optical cover have been removed. Will the Minister pick on medical card holders next?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are ensuring that there will be no diminution of the services available for people with disabilities. That is the type of choice the Government faced when trying to frame the budget. There were recommendations to the effect that the various disability groups, carers groups, and so on, should have been left out.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A recommendation was made in this regard but the Minister did not take it on board.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If that had been accepted, we would have been obliged to take â¬100 million or â¬120 million from another Department's budget, which would have caused undue hardship.
I mentioned reductions in the cost of living. I know the figures are far better for people who perhaps have a mortgage or cars, but the prices relating to energy, clothing, footwear and food have also decreased and this has an impact on everyone.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Fuel and other costs have increased. What is the Minister talking about? The Government increased the cost of living when it introduced the budget.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There has been much discussion with regard to fraud and combating fraud, which is a major priority for the Government and the Department of Social and Family Affairs.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is performing terribly.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There is absolutely no evidence that the figures which were bandied about on a recent television programme to the effect that 10% of the people on social welfare schemes are engaged in fraud.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Did the Minister read the Comptroller and Auditor General's report?
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The level of fraud is extremely small. However, the level of fraud among some categories of people on certain schemes can be quite high.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Then deal with it.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If it was dealt with properly, cuts would not be necessary.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What is being done in this regard is nothing but a distraction.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is why we have clamped down on the activities of such individuals. That is why the Bill contains new measures which will assist the Department in combating fraud.
We have ensured that we will do whatever is necessary to work with agencies in this and other jurisdictions to combat fraud because, after all, taxpayers' money is at stake.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is hammering the poor to protect the rich.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government should tackle the hypocrisy in our society.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A great deal of misinformation was bandied about last evening in respect of young people. Despite the fact that Fine Gael criticised our proposals in this regard, its pre-budget document suggested that it would reduce the payment to young people by â¬50 per week if they did not take up opportunities in training or education.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about young people? They will all go abroad.
Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, but our document indicated that we would provide the relevant education and training courses.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We will increase their payments by up to â¬50 per week if they take up such opportunities.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is an important element of the legislation.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister's time is up.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was important that the Government provide leadership. We have done this in respect of our work and we must do it in the interests of the country. I regret the difficulties this will cause for people.
Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will move an amendment on Committee Stage to ensure that young people aged 22 to 24 will obtain the full rate of payment if they participate in the Government's work placement programme.
1:00 pm
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I must put the amendment.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On a point of order-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am on my feet and putting the question.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am devastated that some of the Members opposite voted for Second Stage of the Social Welfare and Pensions (No.2) Bill. These are discriminatory measures against the blind, the disabled and the carers.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy's party voted against the increases.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If the Members opposite and the so-called Independent Members want to vote against these measures we will give them an opportunity now to go up the stairs and turn right. I am calling for a vote by other than electronic means.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are giving the Government an opportunity to reverse its decision to make all the people poor.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy has to take the 5% cut or else we will make it 15%.
Question again put: "That the words proposed to be deleted stand part of the main Question."
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 81 (Bertie Ahern, Dermot Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Barry Andrews, Chris Andrews, Seán Ardagh, Bobby Aylward, Áine Brady, Cyprian Brady, Johnny Brady, John Browne, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Pat Carey, Niall Collins, Margaret Conlon, Seán Connick, Mary Coughlan, John Cregan, Ciarán Cuffe, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Noel Dempsey, Jimmy Devins, Timmy Dooley, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Michael Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Beverley Flynn, John Gormley, Noel Grealish, Mary Hanafin, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Jackie Healy-Rae, Máire Hoctor, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Brendan Kenneally, Michael Kennedy, Tony Killeen, Michael Kitt, Tom Kitt, Brian Lenihan Jnr, Conor Lenihan, Michael Lowry, Tom McEllistrim, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Martin Mansergh, Micheál Martin, John Moloney, Michael Moynihan, Michael Mulcahy, M J Nolan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Darragh O'Brien, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, John O'Donoghue, Noel O'Flynn, Rory O'Hanlon, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Mary O'Rourke, Christy O'Sullivan, Peter Power, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Noel Treacy, Mary Wallace, Mary White, Michael Woods)
Against the motion: 74 (Bernard Allen, James Bannon, Seán Barrett, Joe Behan, Pat Breen, Tommy Broughan, Richard Bruton, Ulick Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Joe Carey, Deirdre Clune, Paul Connaughton, Noel Coonan, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Seymour Crawford, Michael Creed, Lucinda Creighton, Michael D'Arcy, John Deasy, Jimmy Deenihan, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Frank Feighan, Martin Ferris, Charles Flanagan, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brian Hayes, Tom Hayes, Michael D Higgins, Phil Hogan, Paul Kehoe, Enda Kenny, George Lee, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, Shane McEntee, Dinny McGinley, Finian McGrath, Joe McHugh, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, Arthur Morgan, Denis Naughten, Dan Neville, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Kieran O'Donnell, Fergus O'Dowd, Jim O'Keeffe, John O'Mahony, Brian O'Shea, Jan O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Ruairi Quinn, Pat Rabbitte, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Alan Shatter, Tom Sheahan, P J Sheehan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Billy Timmins, Joanna Tuffy, Mary Upton, Leo Varadkar)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.
Question declared carried.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I declare the Bill to be read a Second Time in accordance with Standing Order 121(2)(i).