Dáil debates

Wednesday, 5 November 2008

11:00 am

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 17, Charities Bill 2007 — Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stages; No. 16, Financial Motions by the Minister for Finance 2009, motion 15 (resumed), to be taken immediately after Private Members' business and the order shall not resume thereafter. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m. Private Members' business shall be No. 44, motion re training programmes (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m. if not previously concluded.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. agreed to?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Before agreeing to this proposal, I wish to ask the Taoiseach whether some arrangement will be made today for the Minister for Health and Children to come to the House to offer an explanation on two matters she spoke about yesterday. The first is her decision to cancel the vaccination programme for young girls against cervical cancer. The announcement of the cancellation of the vaccination programme is surprising, given that it is only three months since she announced the programme was to go ahead. The House should hear an explanation from the Minister about that today.

Second, I am concerned about statements attributed to the Minister for Health and Children yesterday with regard to drugs that are available under the medical card. There are reports that the Minister said yesterday that some drugs currently available under the medical card will be removed from the list and that some medications and treatments available under the drugs refund scheme will be removed from the scope of that scheme. The Minister should be given the opportunity to come to the House today to offer an explanation and respond to questions from Members.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In the same vein, we must recognise that health services in the north east have been starved of necessary resources and have been penalised for not being able to operate within restricted budgets.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot utilize the proposal on the Order of Business to discuss the health services in the north east.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am indicating why I believe the Minister should, as Deputy Gilmore says, come before the House. The points that I am making are relevant to the situation that currently obtains, of which the evidence set out yesterday in the review of the X-rays and scans carried out in Drogheda and Navan is but the most recent example. Consultants, doctors, nurses and support staff are placed in intolerable working conditions. Services have been temporarily closed in all our hospitals and, in respect of a number of hospitals, permanently removed. People have died unnecessarily in the north east as a consequence of these actions, which have been presided over by the Minister.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is a narrow proposal to extend the sitting of the House to take the resumed budget debate.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am indicating my support for Deputy Gilmore's request.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not an opportunity for a discussion on the health service.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister is not being brought before the House to debate this point.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is entitled to make a brief statement and I ask the Taoiseach to respond on the proposal put before the House.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Mechanisms are available to Deputies, such as Private Members' business, for considering matters. I am not in a position to accede to the request made by Deputy Gilmore. It is up to Members to use the procedures of the House in that respect. In regard to the matters he raised, we have as part of our arrangements for a revised medical card scheme provided for a group which will meet under Dr. Barry, who is an expert in this area, to consider future drug usage. This is being done in the context of consistency in patient care. The people involved will, of course, be duly qualified to consider these matters, which should not be portrayed in the way they have been by the Deputy.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal that the Dáil should sit later than 8.30 p.m. agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yesterday, the ESB and Bord Gáis applied for further price increases because of energy costs. These come on top of the increases they have already been awarded this year. Is there any intention on the part of the Government to examine the current regulatory regime——

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——so that drops in energy costs internationally are passed on to Irish consumers?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot utilise the Order of Business as an opportunity for Leaders' Questions.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is a very important issue.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny must ask about matters which are in order.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My question concerns legislation.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I make the decisions.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is about legislation.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to ask about the legislation.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am asking whether it is intended to review the regulatory regime which impacts on hundreds of thousands of consumers every day.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in that area and, if so, what is it?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It pertains to the regulatory regime governing the cost increases allowed to the ESB and Bord Gáis. All I am doing is asking the Taoiseach whether it is intended to examine the matter.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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He might throw some light on it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The price of oil dropped internationally.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot pursue that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That should be reflected in reduced energy costs here.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We should have a more flexible regulatory regime to reflect that.

In respect of the civil partnership Bill, which according to the Government legislation programme is due to be published in 2009, I noted the comments made yesterday by Cardinal Brady. A spokesman for the Catholic Communications Office expressed concern that the legislation might undermine the constitutional provision which protects marriage in this country.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot go into the content of the legislation, as the Deputy is aware.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Taoiseach to take cognisance of that in supporting the case for measures on civil partnership in respect of taxation and other issues. I assume the Government will have regard for the special provision on marriage which is in the Constitution and I ask the Taoiseach to comment.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach on the legislative proposals. Is legislation promised?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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In respect of promised legislation, which is the second issue raised by Deputy Kenny, the programme for Government commits the Government to legislating for civil partnership. We will fulfil that commitment within the current constitutional context and developing case law. It is imperative to stress that the general scheme of the civil partnership Bill has been drafted within a constitutional framework that gives express protection to the institution of marriage. The Government's legislative programme provides for the publication early next year of a civil partnership Bill. The Attorney General has provided advice throughout the drafting process to ensure that the constitutional position on marriage is fully respected and in no way undermined. Civil partnership is a separate and distinct scheme which does not conflict with the special position of marriage.

Regarding the Deputy's first point, a review is being undertaken of all the regulatory arrangements in this country. We have asked for this in light of the plethora of regulators that exists at present. I have spoken this morning to the Minister for Communications, Energy and National Resources regarding the application on electricity and gas prices. As the Deputy will be aware, a process is in place in this regard but I have asked the Minister to meet the chairmen of both companies and report back to me.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On the civil partnership Bill, do I understand correctly from what the Taoiseach has said that the Government will be proceeding with that Bill in 2009? Can he indicate how early in 2009 we might expect the Bill to be published and presented to the House?

The Government announced in the budget the amalgamation or abolition of a number of State agencies. I asked questions previously in regard to the estimated 15 items of legislation which would require amending in order to achieve these amalgamations. I recall asking the Tánaiste on a previous Order of Business whether it was intended to amend the legislation separately or in a single Bill. She indicated that it was intended to address the matter in a single Bill. I ask the Taoiseach when that Bill will be published.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Work can only begin on the legislation to which the Deputy's second question referred on foot of the policy decisions announced in recent weeks. We will proceed with that in due course and as quickly as appropriate or possible.

In regard to the first matter raised by the Deputy, it is our intention to publish a civil partnership Bill next year. I cannot indicate when exactly that will be done but I am responding to the questions put by Deputy Kenny in regard to Cardinal Brady's comments on the Government's position and the constitutional context in which we are operating.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I am conscious that the Government has a heavy legislative programme to prepare. By way of assistance, the Labour Party has drafted legislation to enable vocational education committees to become patrons of primary schools. The Taoiseach will be aware that one such school is already in existence without the strength of law behind it. The legislation is No. 32 on yesterday's Order Paper. It is a simple Bill which was written by one of our specialists and, given that the Minister for Education and Science cannot bring forward legislation on the matter until late 2009, I invite the Taoiseach to consider adopting it and bringing it forward in Government time. I do not believe it will divide the House. It simply legalises a situation that already exists on the ground in north County Dublin.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not aware of the details of the matter but the Government will of course consider any Private Members' Bill that is brought forward. It is the entitlement of every Member of the House to bring forward such legislation and, where it has merit and is in line with Government policy, it can be considered for a common approach, if possible. I cannot give an undertaking to the Deputy, however.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I am trying to be of assistance.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know that.

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Rather than waste our Private Members' time, I want to facilitate the Government's tardiness in drafting legislation. It can adopt the Bill if it likes and can even put its name to it but we need a legal basis for the aforementioned primary school in north County Dublin.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will speak to the Minster about the matter and revert to Deputy Quinn on it.

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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When will the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2008, which came before the Seanad several weeks ago, be presented in this House? In the interim, it was indicated by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government that amendments would be made regarding the sale of local authority flats. Have these amendments been drafted?

There is a proposal in the Bill on a first choice loans scheme, which would allow people who have twice been refused loans by private banks or other institutions to avail of local authority loans. What safeguards or guarantees will be provided in the legislation in that regard?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot deal with the content of the legislation now. The matter raised by the Deputy would make a good Second Stage contribution or he could propose an amendment on Committee Stage.

Photo of Ciarán LynchCiarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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With regard to the €200 parking charge provided for in the budget, will legislation be brought before the House for the implementation of this? Can this be implemented in the absence of legislation? Can the Taoiseach explain how this charge will be implemented if it is to be pursued?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Housing Bill is on Committee Stage in the Seanad. The Minister will bring forward a Finance Bill to give effect to many of the budgetary announcements. If a legislative base is required, that may be the mechanism for that proposal. The Attorney General will provide advice to us on the apartments question, which was raised by another Member on yesterday's Order of Business. We will seek to have that raised as soon as possible.

12:00 pm

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The recent court decision on risk equalisation in the medical insurance area has serious implications for the community rating policy, which the Labour Party supports. Is the Taoiseach planning legislation in this area or are newspapers correct when they suggest there will be a taxation measure in respect of the possible trebling of health insurance for older people? I want to put down a marker that tax breaks are not the way to address this issue because not every older person has health insurance——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must put down a marker that speculation by newspapers is not in order on the Order of Business.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Is legislation promised to address this important issue?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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This is receiving urgent Government attention. As the Deputy points out, the decision of the courts has implications and we need to see how we can alleviate the outcome of that in a way that will maintain voluntary health insurance in the country. This matter is receiving Government attention but no decision has been made and we are examining all options.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In a reply the Taoiseach gave some weeks ago in response to my question on estate management companies and relevant legislation, he mentioned that the Attorney General was considering the matter. Is any effort being made to speed up this legislation before the House? As we speak, residents are being faced with increased bills that they have refused to pay in the absence of the relevant legislation.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sure they understand the consequences.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is having a major impact on my constituency and in others in the greater Dublin area.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It might be but I cannot allow a speech on it now.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is urgent and the Ceann Comhairle will agree that it affects areas all over the country. Will the Taoiseach instruct the Attorney General to spend some serious time on it with a view to bringing the Bill into the House before Christmas?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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This has been raised by Deputies. I understand the concern that is expressed. It is being worked on but it is not an easily resolved matter. We will see if it can be done by an omnibus Bill rather than separate items of legislation that must be amended. Frustration has been expressed by Deputies in respect of the progress of the work but we are committed to resolving it. There is no principle at issue between us on it. In the context of the very considerable workload that the Office of the Attorney General is dealing with, including legislation and the matters that have emerged in recent months, I have asked to see how we could get expedition on this work as quickly as possible.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I refer to two Bills with an overlapping focus, both under the Department of Health and Children, the adoption Bill and the child care Bill. Both were promised for the summer session and re-promised in the new legislative programme for the autumn session this year. Can the Taoiseach advise of his expectation in respect of the presentation of both these items of legislation?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Both Bills should be published this session.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach will agree that in these days of economic gloom, any factors that inhibit economic development should be dealt with and removed. Is the Taoiseach aware of the difficulties associated with development on or adjacent to the seashore and that our foreshore laws, which date from 1933, are out of date?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must make those waves elsewhere. It is not in order.

Photo of Jim O'KeeffeJim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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This is now a real factor in stopping the development of marinas. The foreshore amendment Bill has been promised. Given that our foreshore laws are inhibiting development, could the Taoiseach give priority to that Bill, No. 35 on the legislative list? Could we see it in the reasonably near future?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Social Welfare Bill, the Finance Bill and the nursing homes legislation, along with other Bills, will be taken this session. I take Deputy O'Keeffe's point. The Bill is expected to be available next year. I am aware of the issues being raised. Ministers are working through the issue as quickly as possible. We will have the Bill next year.

Photo of Pádraic McCormackPádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The tide might be out before we see it.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I refer to ComReg. When will we see the heads of a ComReg (amendment) Bill, given that the Cabinet has decided that ComReg will take over the functions of Regtel, the voluntary body that regulates premium rate calls? This is a troublesome area. Has anything been done about it?

The Taoiseach referred earlier to escalating unemployment and the problem of job losses.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That was addressed during Leaders' Questions.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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This is an important question for the Taoiseach.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sure it is but it must be in order on the Order of Business.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Regarding the disastrous situation emerging at Aer Lingus, will the Taoiseach ensure that the industrial relations machinery of the State will be available to the company and the workers?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Transport to take a proactive role?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that. We cannot turn the Order of Business into a constituency clinic.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We do not want several thousand more job losses on the north side and west side of Dublin.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding amalgamating regulators and legislative arrangements arising from that, policy decisions have just been announced in recent weeks.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Regtel is a voluntary industry body, not a State body.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The best thing to do would be to table a question to the line Minister for a detailed reply. I am not aware of promised legislation in that area.

Regarding other matters, I ask people to contemplate the importance of avoiding confrontation when we need to see people pulling together to resolve the problem in a way that meets the commercial imperatives facing the company.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach has a role to play.

Photo of John PerryJohn Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Regarding the health information Bill, can the Taoiseach clarify the situation of the nursing home repayment scheme? In light of the fact that a number of people are deceased since there was agreement in principle to refund the money, that there is only one appeals officer and the lack of accountability to the Dáil on this important issue, can the Taoiseach indicate the level of funding being paid out?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, he cannot.

Photo of John PerryJohn Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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On this——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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He just cannot. If every Deputy behaved in this way we would never finish with the Order of Business.

Photo of John PerryJohn Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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In connection to the health information Bill, and the nursing home repayment scheme, in the past four years people have died, probate is going on——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must table a question.

Photo of John PerryJohn Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The Dáil is not accountable for this matter.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the health information Bill, Taoiseach.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The consultation process for this Bill has just been completed and we will proceed to the legislative provisions arising from that.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It was promised before the summer vacation that a report would be laid before this House by 31 July. The promise was extended to the end of October and the report has not yet appeared. There were allegations that a large number of children suffering from disabilities were the victims of physical and sexual abuse in institutions run by the Brothers of Charity. That report, originally commissioned in 1998, was finally published in 2007.

A report was commissioned into why it took so long to produce the report and the difficulties that arose. It is now taking a year to produce that second report. It has been promised twice by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children with special responsibility for children and youth affairs. The final date was given as 31 October. Does the Taoiseach have any information on when it will be made available and placed before the House?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter I will have to take up with the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children with special responsibility for children and youth affairs and I will revert to the Deputy.

Photo of Tom SheahanTom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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The eligibility for health and personal social services Bill is No. 54 under section C of the Government's legislative programme. It is to clarify and update the present provisions relating to eligibility for health and personal social services. Will provisions be made, updated and clarified for children who have been waiting up to seven years for orthodontic treatment?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I told the Deputy previously that Members cannot go into the content of legislation.

Photo of Tom SheahanTom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Will the provisions be updated and clarified?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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When is that legislation expected?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, it is impossible to give a date for it at this point.