Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I congratulate Deputy Higgins on her appointment as Minister of State. I wish her well in the role and I hope that she will have a good, long sojourn in the Department.

It is appropriate that the Minister of State is here. Although she may not be the line Minister for this issue, she is the Minister of State in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with responsibility for business, employment and retail. The issue of demographics is writ large across the issue being discussed. It will have a massive long-term, knock-on effect on how carers are supported. It will have a knock-on effect in the workplace, because as we face into increased rates of chronic disease such as Alzheimer's and dementia, workers will need to be part of the caring infrastructure into the future. That will have a knock-on effect for businesses and other employers. This is something that has to feed into the interdepartmental working group that has been set up.

I listened with interest to the contribution of the Minister of State, Deputy Butler. She stated:

The work of the interdepartmental working group will be informed by: a broader review of means test being carried out by the Department of Social Protection, which includes the carer's allowance means test provisions; work being carried out by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth under the Action Plan for Disability Services 2024-2026 to increase family resilience and provide extra support for carers and their families; and the national carer's strategy, led by the Department of Health, which is designed around a core vision of recognising, empowering and supporting family carers.

That is all laudable and good. It suggests that a plan is being put in place and that the Government very much recognises the challenges that society faces in terms of the need to ensure there is a proper carer's strategy in place. However, I am a little bit perplexed by what I would call the Department of public expenditure and reform-type language used by the Minister of State when she said she was advised by officials that "the figure is likely to be well over €600 million per year". Already we see the pause and the brake being put on. I hope that in the short time left to me on my mandate, as somebody who is departing this House, we will not have the bean counters putting the brakes on a process where there is such demand from a demographic and societal point of view for carers to be recognised and for their role to be recognised as meaningful in society.

Notwithstanding the advances that have been made by the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, to give her her due, a proper, long-term strategy must be put in place which finally, after over 30 years, recognises the validity and dignity that carers bring to those for whom they are caring. I acknowledge the advances made to date. The Minister said that there will be access to the State pension for carers. That is very laudable, as is the increase to the carer's support grant. The Department has increased the weekly carer's payment by €29 over the last three budgets which is also laudable and a step in the right direction that we absolutely support. What I would call for in my own modest way, in terms of the annual carer's forum which is to meet imminently, is that interventions made there by groups like Family Carers Ireland are taken seriously and there is a feed-in process into the interdepartmental working group so that there is a meaningful outcome which involves a financial commitment to abolishing the means test. That is the direction of travel that the Minister of State will hear everybody talk about here today, including Members on the Government backbenches. Everybody wants to see this happen.

When the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, issued her statement on the setting up of the interdepartmental working group, she referred to cases that she has dealt with in her own constituency and cases that people like me and everybody in this House have brought to her attention, saying:

I recognise however that no matter where I draw the line on the means test, there will always be some families who fall outside the limits. The case I see most frequently is where a mother has to give up her job to provide care for a child with special needs but because of her husband’s income, she does not qualify for a payment.

I have had umpteen cases where a worker, predominantly a male, does overtime and then that worker's spouse, predominantly a female and a mother caring for a child - not necessarily a child who is under 18 but in some cases a young adult - loses everything, including the medical card. If we can fix those issues on the journey towards the abolition of the means test then we will be doing a good day's work as a society.

I welcome the fact that the Department of Social Protection is hosting the annual carers forum. The latter cannot be a talking shop. Whatever feedback is received must be taken on board and must become part of a real output that sets up a situation whereby we are moving towards the abolition of the means test.

In the short time remaining, I want to refer to several cases I have come across, as has my colleague, Senator Mark Wall involving individuals in receipt of jobseeker's benefit who have had their payment cut when they applied for carer's allowance. The system at the moment is cutting payments to people who are on jobseeker's benefit when they apply for carer's allowance. Can that anomaly be fixed? I am being gracious when I call it an anomaly but if it is a deliberate policy and strategy within the Department of Social Protection, then it is cruel, technocratic, bureaucratic and needs to be fixed.

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