Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I begin by thanking the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, Deputies Brady, Shortall, Duncan Smith, Wynne and the Minister of State, Deputy Burke, for their contributions during the debate. I also thank colleagues who expressed support for the Bill.

First, I will address the points made by the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, around the delaying mechanism in the amendment, which, as I have said, we cannot accept. We acknowledge the Government is not opposing the Bill and that is welcome but we are concerned that a nine-month delay mechanism will ultimately lead to the Bill falling with the end of the Dáil term. While we are not wedded to seeing the changes made through this Bill, we are anxious to ensure the changes are made. I listened very carefully to both the Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, speaking about the proposed amendments to be made to the assisted human reproduction Bill and I note there are some changes in our Bill which the Minister said he cannot commit to introducing in his Bill. Therefore, our concern is that even with the AHR Bill making progress and further amendments being brought forward, gaps may still be left and we are anxious about that. We are very glad to collaborate and will engage with the Minister and his officials even after this debate to try to ensure we can get some progress made on amendments to the Government's AHR Bill that is very welcome.

However, I take issue with the Minister's point about having two live Bills. We often have a Private Members' Bill moving in tandem with a Government Bill. Indeed, a Private Members' Bill from the Opposition often serves to put pressure on Government to move more swiftly with the progress of its own Bill. Nobody could say progress on the AHR Bill has been swift to date. Ten years ago, I was on the justice committee when we were looking at legislating for assisted human reproduction and for regulation of surrogacy. The committee held hearings and legislation was brought forward that ultimately culminated in what became the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015. However, that is ten years ago and we have still only just started Committee Stage of the AHR Bill. We had put this Bill - drafted as I said with LGBT Ireland and Equality for Children - in the lottery at some point last year in the knowledge that the Government's Bill was making such slow progress at that stage. We did not know, of course, that we were going to be picked the very week that Committee Stage of the AHR Bill would commence. The coincidental timing is interesting. Certainly, it is not that we actively wanted to have two live Bills; it is more that we could see that no progress would be made unless we pushed the Government on it, so we brought this Bill forward and were delighted it was chosen to come up in the Private Members' Bill lottery tonight.

We believe it would be possible to keep it alive, to move in tandem and in parallel with the other Bill, because this is only Second Stage of this Bill and it would have been perfectly possible to work with the Minister and Government on amending the Government's AHR Bill while having this Bill pass Second Stage and effectively sit there. I have done that before with other Bills and have worked with Government to ensure its provisions would be brought into law. Therefore, I do take issue with the Minister's comments about having two live Bills at the same time; it would have been perfectly possible. Indeed, it would have also been possible for the Minister to propose a shorter delay mechanism of three or six months. In reality, we might then have seen the provisions brought into law.

However, I take heart from the text of the Government countermotion to the extent that it looks "to allow sufficient time for commencement of the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022", therefore indicating that it is hopeful we will pass the AHR Bill in its entirety and within nine months. That is certainly a positive step.

There is a very simple issue at the heart of this Private Members' Bill and Deputy Duncan Smith outlined it very eloquently when he said there really was a simple issue here: do children have the right to have their relationship with both parents recognised in law or not? Certainly, the enactment of the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015 marked a significant step forward to that end, to enable children of LGBT+ parents to have two same-sex parents listed on a child's birth certificate. For many families, that meant legal recognition for the first time but of course the parameters set by the legislation were and remain rather restrictive and that is at the heart of this Bill we have brought forward.

We know from research others have cited, such as Dr. Lydia Bracken's research from the University of Limerick, that the majority of children born into same-sex families are conceived or born outside of those narrow parameters set by the 2015 Act and as a result are prevented from having a legal relationship with both of their parents. It is shocking in 2024 that more than half of children born into same-sex couple families are still prevented from having that relationship. It is an injustice and, as Deputy Smith said, it is as injustice most people do not realise is still in place. Most people in Ireland believe that the 2015 referendum resulted in equality for all families, included those headed by same-sex couples, and it is a surprise to many that there still gaps in the law. TDs across the House will have received dozens of testimonies from affected families explaining the real consequences of these gaps and the challenges for these families in their lived experience which arise due to the gaps in the 2015 framework. One such testimony, I found really moving. A woman emailed me to say:

My wife and I are both Irish passport holders. Last year, we applied to have our toddler entered in the foreign births register but, just before Christmas, we were informed that he was refused because the application was made by me. Because I am not the birth mother, I am not recognised as my son's parent and may not claim Irish citizenship by descent for him.

You will appreciate how this made us feel, coming especially at Christmas, when thoughts of family are paramount. We were shocked that this is the case for same sex couples in Ireland... All we ask is that our children are treated equally.

That testimony, along so many others, really highlights the issues at the heart of this Bill we have brought forward. The stress, the upset, the complications - practical, emotional and other - that this causes have been confirmed, not just in the testimonies we have heard, but also in academic research. I am looking at the former Special Rapporteur on Child Protection, Professor Conor O'Mahony's very important report from 2020 where he reviewed children's rights and best interests in the context of donor-assisted human reproduction and surrogacy. He said then that the current framework has had a negative impact on children's rights to non-discrimination and to recognition of family relationships. We acknowledge this is a complex area to regulate.

As I said, it has been ten years since the justice committee first started looking at how best to achieve an effective and robust framework for regulation of AHR and of surrogacy. We have grappled with these issues in the context of other legislation too. When I was listening to the Minister's comments about a child's right to identity, I was struck by the parallels with the adoption information legislation that we have recently passed where we sought to find a way to ensure an adult's right to identity could be respected with access to information. There were huge difficulties in achieving that but we managed it. What we can do here is manage a way forward to ensure a child's right to identity is respected in law while also ensuring that same child's right to legal recognition of the relationship with both their parents is recognised in law. The Minister spoke about the need to be creative, to look at constructive ways to address the real issues that arise for families, and we want to help with that effort. We want to ensure we can work constructively. We hope to do so.

We will oppose the nine-month delay mechanism.

If that nine-month delay mechanism is passed, let us use that time to ensure we can create the best possible legal framework through amendments to the Government's legislation, ensuring that the rights of the children we are speaking about tonight are respected in law.

The changes we are proposing may seem technical but as we know, they hold real power to make a huge and transformational change for many families in our State. They are families to whom we owe it to bring forward necessary legal measures to respect and recognise their relationships in law - the relationships of children with parents and of parents with children.

I again want to acknowledge that the Government is not opposing the Bill, and we all want to work to that same aim. I again thank those Deputies who spoke in support, and finally, I thank the individuals and advocacy groups who are represented in the Chamber to watch this debate tonight. I want to work with the Minister of State, with the Minister, Deputy Donnelly and with Government and Opposition colleagues to ensure we can achieve the necessary changes to respect the rights of those children and families for whom this would mean so much.

See this speech in context