Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for his contribution and his wrap up.

One would be mistaken for thinking what the Minister is saying sounds good but the practise and the reality on the ground is what will test it and what will show what is actually happening in relation to it.

There is nobody that knows exactly what is happening like the Ombudsman's office does and the Department should be engaging with it, even at this stage, to get its feedback, see what is happening and see what more needs to be done to ensure that children are safe and are looked after in this difficult situation that all families find themselves in.

No doubt the Government finds itself in a difficult situation with the volume and numbers that are coming in here but I would be afraid that in three years' time we will be standing here and still talking about the difficulty and the big numbers that are coming. That is my big fear. A few years ago, in the budget, the Minister said he was giving an amount off the electricity bill and he had to give it to every house in the country. All the millionaires and everyone had to get the same amount off because it was too complex and too difficult to work on it and to make a payment that works for people who needed it. Two years down the line, they were still giving us payment in the last budget but it is still too difficult. They still cannot do it. Until we decide that we have to do this and we are going to do this, it will always be too difficult to do it.

Maybe there is something that could be done straightaway. The Minister says HIQA inspects the IPAS centres but it does not inspect the centres that are contracted into IPAS, such as the hotels. HIQA inspects private nursing homes. They are not HSE properties. They are not Government properties. They are private nursing homes and HIQA inspects them. Maybe HIQA could be adapted to inspect the hotels and places like that as well. That would make a real difference to the people who are forced to live in them. It would mean that the exorbitant amounts that we are paying to those providers could be put to good use to ensure that people are safe as well because there are problems. For example, one quote in the report is in relation to poor governance and that there is little space for the movement and development of young children, in some instances, even to situate a cot in a room where young children have to sleep in a bed with adults in accommodation that is provided by the State to families. Whether it is provided through the private operators or provided by the State, it should be provided safely. That is the reality that we should be working on.

The Minister talked eloquently about the White Paper, but the White Paper is out of date now. The numbers that are coming have way surpassed anything in the White Paper. When is the review of the White Paper and the new White Paper to be published? That will be important as well. Maybe over the next couple of days the Minister could say when the White Paper will be published and when we can expect a new White Paper that will guide what we are looking at for the future because that is vitally important.

Years ago, I was involved in the direct provision centre that was provided in Donegal town in 2000. I was involved in a support group for that there and it worked well. There were actually children in that direct provision centre living with adults put there by IPAS. IPAS would not accept that they were children and was forcing them to live with adults but yet the Government supported them to go to school. How could children be supported to go to school but not be supported and recognised as children living with adults there? I hope we have moved on from that but we have still, obviously, a long way to go to ensure that people are respected and looked after. That is the kind of thing that we do not want to see being repeated and we need to ensure that it is done properly.

I stated already that I do not doubt the Minister wanting to do it and wanting to do it right, but I have to question whether the Government's commitment is to do that. I also have to question whether that is the reality because we cannot continue to be in an emergency situation indefinitely.

I welcome that 36 buildings have been procured. I wonder what stage they are at. There is one, the Minister is saying, that is used for women who are trafficked. I welcome that. At what stage are the rest of the buildings at? Will they be coming on stream? How quickly will they be coming on stream because that will make a difference as well? As I say, maybe then we can get HIQA to inspect those buildings and what is being done in relation to them. That would be very important as well.

I thank the Members who have contributed and thank the Minister for his response. I acknowledge that at the Business Committee it was recognised that this debate should take place and it was supported by all Members. It might not appear that way when one looks at the Members who have turned up here tonight, but that is a Thursday evening. It is unfortunate that is the way of it.

I thank Deputies Funchion, Whitmore and Pádraig O'Sullivan as well for their contributions. This work will continue to be important.

I also thank the Ombudsman for Children, Dr. Niall Muldoon. A Donegal man too, it is important that he is acknowledged here. I would like to see them work very closely with the Department, and taken on board. It is important that there is somebody who can hold everybody to account. We all need to be held to account. We should be embracing that and we should welcome that. We should be looking to achieve the standards that they set for us as well because that is important. If we do that over the next year or two, we will achieve something.

Ultimately, it is about bettering and making more comfortable the lives of the children who are coming here because they will contribute more to the State than we will ever expend on them now. That has to be recognised too.

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