Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister and Minister of State for being here today. I will preface this by saying I would not normally speak on this kind of industrial relations issue. I believe that industrial relations matters are best dealt with in a negotiation room. They are often best dealt with in advance of strike action, although I fully accept that the right to strike and use of strike action is an important tool for workers. If that is my principle, why am I standing up here today? The reason I am standing today is that there is more than just an industrial relations issue going on here. There would appear to be an attempt by Government - I can only use the word "Government" but I will come back to that word - to save money over time by not restoring the pay to these workers. There is no other way of explaining what is going on here. A very difficult decision was made to reduce pay right across the public sector in 2011. Since then, there has been a process of restoring pay under the Building Momentum agreement and so on. Yet there has not been enough progress for section 38 and section 39 organisations. The Minister is right. It is incredibly complicated. There are so many different forms and sizes of organisations and types of employment. Let us be clear, however. That is not because of the section 38 and section 39 organisations. It is because decades of Irish Governments have relied on voluntary groups to deliver what should be a public service. Nearly €6 billion of the HSE's €23 billion falls into the section 38 and section 39 organisations. Mr. Bernard Gloster from the HSE appeared before the Committee of Public Accounts last week and spoke about these difficulties. These are State services provided by voluntary organisations and the State is the shadow director in all of this because it exclusively funds many of the services.

I will return to the word "Government". Out of everybody who holds ministerial office, both the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, are probably the chief champions to try to resolve this issue. I wish all 15 members of Cabinet were here because this does affect Ministers right across the board. What I would say to the Minister and Minister of State, and particularly the Minister because he is a member of Cabinet, is that I wish to relay the incredibly strong feeling that was relayed at the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting on Wednesday, which is that not enough is being done to resolve this. In 2018, the process started around the categorisation. It is still not resolved. For some workers, it is still not resolved. What is most breathtaking is that the 5% offer was made to these workers by people who had had full restoration of their public sector pay. The Minister should think about that. People who have had their full pay restored made an offer of 5% to workers who have not had their public sector pay. It is just breathtaking. What is worse is that even if they had succeeded in getting that 5%, it would permanently hamstring the full sector to the extent that it would have a recruitment challenge going forward. The sector would constantly be competing with the HSE because the pay rate would be below. Therefore, not only would the Government be saving or penny-pinching in one area but it would also be creating a recruitment challenge permanently for those section 38 and section 39 organisations.

There is an opportunity now before the strike for the Government to send a very clear message that this should have been resolved last year but it will be resolved now, and it will be resolved around the table and the Government will put the money forward. I say in the strongest possible terms on behalf of the Fianna Fáil backbenchers, many of whom could not be here because they might be from rural constituencies across the country, although I acknowledge Deputy McGuinness will speak after me, that we want this issue resolved, but not for any political gain. We want it resolved because it is the right thing to do for the people who have had their pay reduced for a long period of time and for the people who need these services. It is the right thing to do for the section 38 and section 39 organisations that are going to need to provide these services, and for who? Not for themselves but for us and the State. They provide these services for us. Both the Minister and Minister of State are strong advocates to try to resolve this issue. They are incredibly strong advocates in this space. For them to continue to do their jobs in order that section 38 workers can do their jobs on behalf of us in this House, we need to resolve the issue as soon as possible. I accept that some progress has been made, but I believe we need to go faster.

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