Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for their contributions. In terms of the reasoning for the introduction of a concluding year, as I described earlier and as many Deputies will know, county homes had multiple purposes from the 1920s. They succeeded the poorhouses into the 1930s and 1940s and by the 1960s, many of them had ceased. Some did not cease. Some developed into nursing homes provided for by the State and some developed into mainstream hospitals providing a whole range of mainstream services, including maternity services.

The scheme here was never intended to provide an ability to apply for a payment for somebody who gave birth in mainstream maternity services in a hospital that was the successor of a county home. As the definitions currently stand, that is a possibility. As I said, it was never the intention, and it is a possibility we have to mitigate against. That is what we are seeking to do in terms of the definitions and the addition of the concluding year.

In terms of the matter raised by Senator Boyhan, the commission found that St. Kevin's Institution and St. Patrick's on Navan Road were described as being the same institution within the context of these institutions. St. Kevin's Institution became St. Kevin's Hospital, and it went on to form part of St. James's Hospital. This information as regards the co-location has come to light in recent months. That is the reason for the changes being introduced in the Seanad. My officials met Senator Boyhan and in keeping with the other amendment we are bringing forward in terms of the ability to change a concluding date, if relevant evidence comes forward, we will continue with our engagements with him on whether there is a need to examine that particular date.

Much work has been done in terms of the dates that have been established for the concluding years. It is really important, however, and one thing I requested that my officials ensure was inserted in the Bill was that we have the capacity to amend the concluding year, not by bringing another Bill through the Dáil but through a statutory instrument, because new information throughout this whole process has come to light when records are found, and they identify new elements. Much work has been brought out in terms of identifying those concluding dates. However, we have put in a mechanism whereby if new information comes forward that casts doubt on some those concluding dates and bringing a concluding date forward would allow more people to be able to access the scheme, that capacity is provided for here.

While recognising what Deputy Sherlock discussed specifically in terms of the amendment, he raised important points for which I thank him. It is important to say this scheme is not operational right now and will be operational later this year. The legislation has not passed. We hope to have this legislation passed today and sent to the President. A detailed public information campaign will be issued once the legislation is operational. It will be undertaken here in Ireland and abroad. It will be done in plain English and there will be a clear indication of how people apply under this particular scheme.

There is no requirement to engage a solicitor to apply for this particular scheme. We would strongly encourage people not to engage with a solicitor in terms of this scheme. I cannot tell people to do that. I am always cautious about telling people when they should or should not engage with legal services, but our advice is that there is no need to do that at this stage.

As I said, there will be a comprehensive public awareness campaign in advance of the scheme opening. We are aware that a practice is taking place with some legal firms, and we will be communicating with anybody who reaches out to us directly and giving our recommendation that there is no need for engagement.

We also have a quarterly bulletin in which we provide an update to people who have signed up to this. Many hundreds of survivors and former residents have signed up to this update at the moment and we will make that clear in that update as well. We will use those mechanisms for communicating with former residents to let people know. As the Deputy knows, we are also in the process now of appointing a special advocate for survivors of institutional abuse. That person can also play a role in terms of giving advice that there is no need to engage with legal firms.

The legislation makes provision for financial support with legal advice in two situations, one of which is if someone needs to sign an affidavit because records are not available for them in the database that was developed by the commission. We expect that for the very significant majority of people who make an application, their dates of residence in an institution will be available within the database. We say to everybody that it is very unlikely that anyone has their own documents. The fact that someone does not have documents should in no way discount his or her ability to apply under this particular scheme. People should make the application. If it turns out there is a gap in information on an individual's particular case, there is the option under the legislation for someone to swear an affidavit. Financial support is provided for the legal process around swearing an affidavit. There is also a provision for some financial support at the end of the process if a person seeks legal advice before he or she signs the waiver and accepts his or her payment. Those are the two circumstances within the Bill where financial support is provided for anyone seeking legal advice. However, our strong view is that there is no requirement to engage with a solicitor to access the scheme. We will continue to work to amplify that particular message.

Deputy Connolly asked for an update on engagement with the religious congregations. Again, that is a negotiation, so I do not think it will serve the negotiation for me to provide a blow-by-blow account other than to say I have appointed Ms Sheila Nunan to take a lead role in terms of those negotiations and engagements with the religious congregations.

In terms of the Institutional Burials Act, as the Deputy said, Mr. Daniel McSweeney has now been appointed to head up the agency that will undertake the intervention in Tuam. Over recent weeks since his appointment, he has been engaging with families, survivors and former residents in the Tuam area. We made a decision that he would undertake that engagement before undertaking any sort of public engagement. I understand that in the next number of weeks, he probably will undertake a wider public engagement in terms of updating the progress of that particular process.

In terms of issues related to infant remains on other sites, in the last number of weeks, I gave approval for a small grant for a survivor group in Sean Ross to undertake ground truthing work outside of the identified infant cemetery in Sean Ross. They have concerns that the area enclosed, and the actual site of infant burials may be wider there. After some engagement with that organisation in Sean Ross, which I visited last summer, we are providing this support in terms of a piece of work they are doing.

Under the birth information and tracing legislation, more than 9,000 people now have applied for their records from institutions, and more than 5,000 people have received their records. Two key institutions, namely, the Adoption Authority Of Ireland and Tusla, are undertaking work to provide replies to all other applicants under the scheme. In that legislation, we introduced a provision that makes it an offence to destroy records. That offence is now on the Statute Book. Prior to the commission's report, my Department took on an archivist to make public documents related to the institutions that are held by other bodies. Particularly for the county homes, a large number of documents would be held by the HSE. The archivist is working in my Department to ensure that these can be transferred from the HSE under the normal provisions of the Birth Information and Tracing Act 2022. If the Deputy wishes, I can write to her separately to give her a more detailed update on that particular piece of work.

The Sean MacDermott Street plan is very important. This was raised with me very briefly after I became Minister in terms of something many people in this area saw as an important site where records can be stored, maintained and accessed by individual record holders and, to an extent, also by historians, as is appropriate under a legislative framework.

It would be run by the National Archives of Ireland in conjunction with the National Museum. We have the capacity to have a records centre but also a memorial site of conscience too. It would also bring some benefit to the north inner city with some social housing and children's services. That is an important step forward.

I think I have on three occasions answered the issue in respect of the report on illegal birth registrations in this House, Deputy Connolly. I respectfully say I have. The Deputy has raised it many times and I have always given the reason.

See this speech in context