Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I support this Bill. In fairness to Deputies O'Donoghue, Healy-Rae and McGrath, they have engaged. Mr. Edmund Honohan has to be commended on the amount of work he has put in and for being one of the people who asked the questions when he was working down the road that many people did not ask. It was not a rubber-stamp job on many occasions. Mr. Brian Reilly also needs a mention. I am shocked the Government is going against this. I listened to the Minister's speech when he talked about the dangers of not being able to get money. The bottom line is if one owns a company and is borrowing for it, the risk is the same. Companies can get money no problem. The kite that is flown about the dangers of getting finance is not there. There is a strategic fund the Government can back to help, which it has, in fairness, for the agricultural sector.

Nobody seems to get the problem we saw when the country hit trouble, whether that was a company, an individual or a farmer. People in different walks of life can go through financial pressures or be in financial stress. Solutions are needed to that because, first, somebody in financial stress finds it very hard to get out of it and, second, the big problem is with getting money from the another bank or elsewhere when one tries to do a deal. What has happened needs to be understood: the investment funds that had a lot of money, which we call vulture funds, bought all these loans from the bank. It was like watching a person grow up. If one had money in a bank, the bank would be charged interest but every day as the years went by, the interest and value were growing on these loans because, thankfully, land has gone up in value. However, the funds were smiling and the person was still left in distress.

Many of these debts were bought at between 30% and 50%. It was all right for the funds to have it at that. I am talking about the people who are trying to get back on the road again, to whom the funds were not listening or even interested in talking. The person could have 40 meetings and it was basically full duck or no dinner. The funds had to get everything or nothing and that was a considerable problem. I acknowledge the work done by the likes of Mr. David Hall in the line of housing. He helps many people in different parts of the country. I also acknowledge the likes of Mr. Keith Farry who has done considerable work on the insolvency side, as the Minister mentioned. I acknowledge the amount of work those people did.

This Bill is a no-brainer because, at the end of the day, we need farmers to be able to go forward. We see when a company closes down that the person opens up another company down the road. We saw it with building. How many builders have basically been in serious bother and have been back building again? They can get money because once the slate is clean and they are able to put a business case forward, they get money. The problem for other people is that their names come up with the credit bureau and they cannot get money even if they are trying to get a deal. It is a major problem and leaves them with nowhere else to go other than to family members or others. We need to make sure we give them this new lease of life for their families and communities. It is sickening for someone from whom a debt was bought at 50% of what it was when the buyer still keeps trying to knock the last pound of flesh out of them. That is ferociously hard to understand.

As the Minister will see, the Bill seeks to make sure the family home is looked after. We have seen situations with regard to family homes where if the names of siblings or partners are not put down, they do not seem to have any rights. That is a major problem. Thankfully, bit by bit around the country, the likes of the people I mentioned and many Deputies have engaged to try to help people resolve difficulties and issues. However, there is still plenty of it out there and many families still do not know what will happen or where they will be because they find it hard to get a deal over the line. Funnily enough, it was nearly easier to get a deal four or five years ago. The country is doing better now and the price of things is going up. As things become more expensive, there is no interest in doing a deal quickly but there is interest and fees and, in some cases, a receiver will be appointed, which adds considerable costs.

We have to solve the problems because when the people one talks to get a resolution in respect of their house, business or farm, it is like a new lease of life or a load off their back. Many of these people move forward and make a considerable contribution to the country or society. What we need is for society to be prosperous. I urge the Government to look at this and take it on board. To put it mildly, the person who wrote this Bill has a fair legal brain. Mr. Honohan has put in hours to put this together.

As politicians, we should not be on the side of big business all the time, to put it very simply. We should look at the small people because, funnily enough, many small people throughout this country contribute the taxes. Ironically, the people who have a hold on this State, the vultures, are the ones who do not have to pay taxes.

It is rather an unusual set-up. The first thing we should do is look after the people around the country. If we have a prosperous community and society, then there is less pull on the Government. If people are struggling, they will always need more help from the State. That is plain to see. I urge the Government to take on board what we have said and provide another prong and way to solve those problems as well as insolvency. I agree that significant work has been done on insolvency. People such as David Hall have done so much. We have to get into our heads that there are vulture funds that are going for the last penny. As rates go up, they will stick tighter to that. Then there are bodies such as iCare that will buy it out. When a person gets up and running at a 5% or 6% rate, they can buy the house back for what was paid for it, not twice the price. The information about what companies gave for that debt is redacted. That is how they make huge profits every year. We should make sure we help people as much as possible.

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