Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Bill and welcome the opportunity to contribute to the discussion. My first point is that the betting and gaming industry is big business, and one that has changed fundamentally. To give an example, the small town in which I live in west Cork had no bookie's shop for some 80 years. In the last decade, a bookie's shop opened and created two jobs, and many things changed fundamentally. The vocabulary of some of our younger people completely changed. At one time, when a "yankee" was discussed, it was a long-lost cousin come back from Boston or New York. It is now something entirely different, and it is discussed with a confidence and a knowledge that would astound people my age and older who, quite frankly, have not a clue what people are talking about in terms of the dialogue surrounding gambling. When it comes into the lexicon and confronts people, it changes their attitudes and is very pervasive and addictive.

The idea that a duty should be paid on gambling is a very important one. However, if it is going to be levied on the off-course bookies' shops, naturally, it is only fair that the playing field would be levelled and that some effort would be made to impose the same conditions on the online companies which are set up outside the State to allow them to carry on without being chased down for the duty that is quite reasonably levied on other bookies' shops.

This is where the difficulty in the proposed legislation lies. It is right and correct to propose it but it will be very difficult to enforce it. I note that in much of the discussion around the legislation that enforcement will arise in court appearances and convictions in absentiabut also in the restriction of financial or other services to companies that do not obtain licences. I do not know how far you can bring that. Do you have to go to other jurisdictions to enforce that type of punishment or measure against a company that is not in this State? It will be very difficult. I believe the existing companies - those that are legitimately set up in this country - will be watching how we propose to enforce the new legislation.

One cannot talk about this Bill without talking about the Gambling Control Bill in respect of how the nature of the business and not just the duties will be discussed. We need a fundamental debate about the betting industry. It is often mentioned how the industry funds the horse and greyhound racing industries and rightly so because they are huge industries which between them employ almost 30,000 people in this country and have an economic turnover somewhere just south of €2 billion per annum. To ignore that would be reckless and they are entitled to be supported. The anomaly here is that when somebody goes to a bookie's shop or places bets online using their smartphone, they place bets on a wide range of activities and sports which do not get the same attention. The model that is being looked at where the duty comes into the Exchequer is too closely linked in commentary to the horse and greyhound racing industries. I firmly believe those industries are entitled to the support they get from the Exchequer but the commentary links them too closely to the betting duty. Other activities should be looked at for supports and they do get support through sports capital funds. I notice that more and more betting is done on politics. Perhaps we should all be looking for a slice of the action and get some extra support from the betting duty. Of course, that is being a bit facetious but it highlights the old story about somebody betting on two flies up against the wall. If the technology is there that would almost allow anybody anywhere to bet on anything at any time in any part of the world, it is absolutely extraordinary and a challenge the agencies will need to address. In respect of the gambling industry, it may come to pass that some independent regulator may have to be set up - perhaps not at this stage. The rate and growth within the betting industry through technology is significant, the technology is changing all the time, it is very hard to keep ahead of it and there may come a time when this has to happen.

We see it every day, not just in bookie's shops. Turn on the television or the radio and you will be invited by the presenter to make a phone call and answer what is a very easy question to draw in as many people as possible at €1.50 per minute to challenge for a prize or gift whose value we do not know. It might be 1%, 10% or 50% of the income generated by the telephone calls they have solicited. That is gambling - there is no other word for it - but we do not know how much money is being generated by the people in their homes who pick up the phone and dial their premium rate numbers to take part in these competitions for a bit of a punt that they will enjoy. Is the State entitled to a duty or tax on that sort of activity?

The Minister may be aware of this. Everyone of us has had a history of this where people present themselves to banks for mortgages or loans and have an online betting account in their statement. That is the end of that. The bank manager will look at that and say "well, okay, here we go." They will be very careful about giving out any finance to this person. More advice should be given to people on how they set up online gambling accounts. People do not realise that there are hidden consequences. Obviously, that may be part of the Gambling Control Bill and not part of this Bill.

Deputy Healy-Rae mentioned the machines in bookie's shops and pubs. This is probably part of the Gambling Control Bill but it is very important that there are some curbs because they are mushrooming around the country and are in places where people are most vulnerable. After you have had a few drinks, you are more inclined to start throwing money into a machine than you would normally be. We must be very careful about where these machines are. I am not saying they should be banned but they should be licensed and regulated in the right place. That is what this comes down to. It is about proper licensing and regulation irrespective of whether it is a bookie's shop, an operator of poker machines, a betting exchange or a national or international online company. I welcome the Betting (Amendment) Bill because it makes a genuine effort to level the playing field and generate extra tax income, which is always welcome and which will hopefully support further our horse and greyhound racing industries but also go further and support the other activities the betting industry feeds from.

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