Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent) | Oireachtas source

That is the balanced view. We should never allow a vocal and negative minority, or a vested interest group, to stop this type of leisure activity. That is the bottom line. I will deal later with the addiction issue that has been mentioned by my colleague, Deputy Crowe. I agree with him on that issue. I will come to that after I have focused on the nuts and bolts of this legislation.

It is important we look at the economic side of this issue. It should be the most important part of any debate in this country at present. I refer to what is going on in the Irish thoroughbred horse industry, for example. It is estimated the industry was worth some €1.2 billion to the economy in 2008. This figure decreased to approximately €900 million in 2010. It is estimated that some 15,084 people were working in the industry, excluding the betting sector, in 2008.

A total of 6,100 were employed in the breeding sector and 6,300 in the racing sector, with 2,650 others employed in the sector in 2008. Those are the figures and that is the economic reality of this debate. It was estimated that in 2010 the number of jobs in the sector had fallen by more than 3,700 and stood at 17,351. Approximately 2,000 jobs were lost in the breeding sector, 1,000 in the racing sector and 700 in others areas. Having a good strong horse industry creates jobs and people have a bit of fun. What is wrong with that?

Approximately 11,000 people are directly and indirectly employed in the greyhound industry and it is estimated to be responsible for more than €500 million in economic turnover. These jobs represent a broad spread of different employment types across the greyhound and horse sectors, and thus there may be some double counting in these figures. There are 14,000 greyhounds in training and the annual spending associated with the breeding, rearing, training and racing of greyhounds amounts to some €64.4 million. The greyhound industry also has a significant export dimension with 8,000 dogs exported to Britain. When discussing the Betting (Amendment) Bill we also need to focus on the other side.

I accept the concerns of my colleagues on the addiction issue. We need to look seriously at the issue which is why I strongly support the radical proposals and also the issue of regulation. We need to have that in place for safeguards because we must accept that some people are vulnerable. However, we cannot blame the vast majority of moderate people. I have a couple of bets a week on football or horses. I enjoy it and I do it in a moderate way. That is how most people do it and that is how life is. It is like alcohol addiction. Some people like to go out for a pint and have a chat with their neighbours and friends. There is no reason for blaming alcohol for the problems other people have in society. We need to ensure we do not blame the moderate person for the actions of a minority of others.

A friend of mine recently suggested to me that because of mass unemployment and poverty, some people are very vulnerable to putting money on in the bookies in the morning or late at night hoping they will win a huge sum of money to feed their families. While this is something, the way to deal with that is to deal with the issue of unemployment and create jobs. I mentioned some of the statistics earlier. The jobs issue is crucial to dealing with that issue.

I welcome the regulation because I know from experience that we need to be very conscious of what goes on in the criminal underclass. I am concerned at the number of innocent people who were cut down in the streets in recent days and nobody seems to bat an eyelid about them. In the city of Dublin I am also concerned that the criminal gangs are using bookie shops to launder some of their money. It is important to mention these real issues while debating this legislation because they form the heart and soul of legislation. When dealing with legislation in the Dáil, it is wrong not to take into consideration the consequences for the citizens of the State, including jobs, mass unemployment, poverty and other such issues. That is where we are going wrong and we need to focus on that every day of our lives in the Oireachtas. That is why it is very important that Members of the Oireachtas stay in touch with people on the ground.

I am delighted to see the Minister for Finance in the Chamber today. I believe he is a man who likes the odd bet or two, but I will not go there. The Finance Act 2011 extended betting duty to online and offshore telephone betting. Prior to commencing the extension of betting duty, however, a new licensing regime for online or remote betting needed to be put in place. The Betting (Amendment) Bill 2013 introduces this new licensing system. The new system creates two new licences: a remote bookmaker's licence for those offering normal bookmaking services by remote means, and a remote betting intermediaries licence for those offering betting exchange services that allow individuals to bet against each other with no risk to the intermediary.

The Betting (Amendment) Bill was published in July 2012 and the work continued right on to 2013. The work was then passed on to the European Commission on 18 July 2013. Once the Act is commenced, the taking of bets from Irish residents by remote means will be an offence unless the taker has a remote bookmaker's licence or a remote betting intermediary's licence. I warmly welcome that very positive development, which is why I am supporting the legislation. A person with an ordinary bookmaker's licence can also take bets by remote means up to a certain value of betting turnover - €250,000 or 10% of total betting turnover, whichever is lower. This will be enforced by the Minister for Justice and Equality sending a notice to non-compliant remote bookmakers or remote betting intermediaries outlining their breach of the law and the remedies available to them to end their non-compliance. As I mentioned earlier, the role of the Minister for Justice and Equality regarding the criminal gangs is important and also regarding the enforcement of the legislation. If they fail to take action, the Minister can prosecute them in the District Court or a higher court, or ask the District Court to order that credit institutions cease to transact with them, or prohibit them advertising or sponsoring sports events, or order telecoms and Internet service providers to block access to their Internet websites. That is a strong and decisive provision in the legislation, which is what we need when dealing with this issue and regulation.

The Bill makes a number of other changes to the current application system for a bookmaker's licence and replicates these changes for the new remote licences. These include allowing corporate bodies, that is, companies, to hold a bookmaker's licences for the first time and updating the factors a Garda superintendent or the Minister for Justice and Equality can consider when making a judgement on an application for a certificate of personal fitness. This certificate is needed to apply for a bookmaker's licence. It is important to have this kind of strong legislation. We do not want the wrong people getting involved in this industry, as happened in the past in the US and countries in Europe. This is something we need to deal with.

Other changes the Bill include longer opening hours for registered bookmaking offices, new registers of those with licences and permits under the Betting Acts and providing for these registers to be published online, prohibiting online betting by those aged under 18, and defining the term "bookmaker" in legislation for the first time. There has also been a row about this because some people believe bookmakers should not have longer opening hours. People in life have choices and if they want to have a bet when it suits them, they should be given that choice. People with a major view or a vested interest should not be allowed to block people going in and putting a few bob on a football match if it starts at 7.30 p.m. or it is half-time in a match and they want to have a bit of fun with neighbours and friends. While regulation is important, let us be open and flexible.

The main purpose of the Bill is to license remote betting operators in order to extend betting duty to remote betting by Irish residents. This extension should raise approximately €14 million per year in additional betting duty revenue if all remote betting is channelled through compliant operators. The Minister for Finance should be rubbing his hands in glee that approximately €14 million can be brought in. Let us look at those ideas rather than looking at other old-fashioned conservative ideas. If people are prepared to put money on the horses or a match, there is nothing wrong with taxing them. In times of recession there is nothing wrong with considering increasing those taxes because they are leisure activities and people will not whinge too much about it whereas they might complain about other serious issues in their household bills, etc.

Currently, betting duty revenue with an additional subsidy goes to the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund. This fund distributes money to Horse Racing Ireland and Bord na gCon to develop the horse and greyhound industries in Ireland. This includes funding racecourse development, distribution of prize money, and regulating and promoting the industries. In most countries, income from the betting sector is used in some way to fund the horse and greyhound industries. However, over recent years the revenue from betting duty on off-course betting has declined as online betting increased and the economic situation worsened. This has meant that the additional subsidy from other resources to the horse and greyhound sector has increased while the overall level of funding has declined. We have to react to changing economic circumstances.

I welcome the legislation. It is very important to have regulation. It is also important to have common sense in all legislation because a Bill such as the Betting (Amendment) Bill 2013 deals not only with people having a nice leisure activity but also with potential to help the economy, when one considers the number of people directly employed in all of these industries. We must find new and modern ways to develop jobs without taking some of the more conservative approaches to betting. I welcome the legislation. It is sensible and I will support it.

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