Luke Flanagan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent) | Oireachtas source

We will respect the Chair. It might be a bit highfalutin to talk about how the country was systematically defrauded, but let us take it back to basics. My children, my neighbours' children and the future generations of this country are being defrauded and something needs to be done about it. I thought we had left the years of Haughey, Lawlor et al behind us. I hope we have.

As nothing had happened by February, I asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if there was a Garda investigation into ongoing systematic weight volume fraud at Coillte Teoranta, and if he would make a statement. His answer stated he had requested a report from the Garda authorities on the matter and would contact me directly when the report came to hand. Before I outline what he said, it is important to point out that the people in the industry asked the Garda Síochána directly, as I did, and we were told there was an investigation ongoing. Let us not dance around the issue. The fact is our children are having money robbed from them.

I received the following letter from the Minister:

Dear Luke,

I refer to Parliamentary Question No. 151 of 13 February 2013 asking if there is a Garda Síochána investigation ongoing into systemic weight to volume fraud at Coillte Teo, and if I would make a statement on the matter.

As you will recall, the information you requested could not be obtained in the time available, and I undertook to contact you again when a Garda report was to hand.

I have now received the Garda report and I am informed that the Garda authorities are not aware of any ongoing investigation into systematic weight volume fraud at Coillte Teo.

The Minister, who is the boss of the Garda Síochána, told us he is not aware of any investigation and a member of the Garda Síochána told us there is an investigation. I wonder why the Minister of State present is wary of me talking about this, because I understood the Minister of State in question was looking forward to me coming in to talk on the Forestry Bill. Anyway that is what the Minister told us.

One of the reasons the investigation would not be proceeding is that Coillte has not reported a problem. If someone came around to my house and robbed my television, I would certainly go to the Garda Síochána and report it. If someone robbed my forestry, I would certainly report it.

On foot of this, Coillte contacted me and said, further to my contribution to the debate in the Dáil during the week about weight volume fraud in Coillte it would be very interested in and grateful for any information that I might have regarding same. I find that remarkable given that it had all the evidence. I wrote back and said any information it needed regarding weight volume fraud in Coillte was available within the organisation, as it knew. I suggested that the officials talk to their colleagues in senior management at Coillte Forests, the forestry arm of Coillte, who were well aware of this issue and that they ask why this had never been investigated by the Garda Síochána. I have not heard from them in response to that e-mail.

Where did it go from there? I brought this matter up during a Private Members' debate on a motion tabled by Deputy Boyd Barrett. It was an excellent motion. I believe he played a very big part in stopping the sale of Coillte. In my speech I mentioned what the industry had brought to me. As a result, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, said he would try to do something about it. I wrote to him saying that during my contribution to the Private Members' debate tabled by the Technical Group on 26 and 27 February of this year I mentioned that Coillte had been systematically defrauded by certain sawmills. At the time the Minister commented that this was new information, although I had asked a Minister about it previously but we will let that slide, and that I should furnish him with the information. Given the complexity of this matter I told him that it would make far more sense to discuss this with him in person and also requested that he meet one of the affected parties, a particular sawmill.

In the reply, which I received on 24 April, the Minister thanked me for my request regarding Coillte and said that he was making inquiries into the matter and would contact me shortly. As a result I and the industry people who had contacted me met with the Department. Unfortunately, the Minister was not present. He was busy. I can understand that because it is a very busy job and I will not criticise him for that. We left with the officials, including the assistant secretary to the Minister and we met a Coillte liaison officer from the Department. I will not name the people as there would be no benefit in that and it would not be fair to them. It is the Minister's job to ensure accountability. We met with these people, as well as with a legal team representing the people who had come to me with this information and we were told that an investigation would take place. In July of that year Coillte requested that we provide it with further information. We went to Wexford and met with Coillte officials. Slowly but surely we were getting a bit of hope that something would be done. At that stage this had been going on for seven months. That is a long time to be looking for justice. We met with them and provided further information and waited, and waited, and waited.

A couple of weeks ago my office received a telephone call as a result of which my secretary wrote to the Minister to the effect that, further to a telephone conversation between my constituency office secretary and the Minister's office that morning, I looked forward to meeting the Minister the week after that to discuss the report on frauds in Coillte. I wished the Minister success in his trade mission because he had gone away. The industry representatives and I met with the Department. It was the most shocking meeting I have ever attended in my life. That is probably an understatement. It was probably the most shocking meeting anyone in politics could ever have attended in their life. GUBU would not describe it. We were met with stonewalling. People who have put decades of their life into developing this industry were shocked. One of those present said that until then he had been sorry to see people leave the country and pitied the families of those who were leaving but after that meeting he concluded that those who leave are right and that even more would leave because we live in a hellhole. That was the view of a very conservative, calm person after what he saw. We were looking for a serious investigation but we have not got it.

We were pleased that the Minister gave a commitment to investigate this thoroughly in the first case as all other attempts to get Coillte to act on this complaint had failed. We had expected that the Minister would use his position as a shareholder in Coillte on behalf of the citizens of Ireland to get to the bottom of this issue. We were told that one of the reasons for his not being able to get information was that Coillte fobbed off the investigators by saying that the information needed was commercially sensitive and could not be given to the Minister, who effectively owns Coillte on behalf of the people.

I could have been shocked by that but I had met a similar obstacle when I was chair of an environment group, and a member of the corporate policy group. I was one of the people who should have been running Roscommon but when I looked for information it was refused on the grounds that it was commercially sensitive. At a local level I was told that something was too commercially sensitive to tell the people who run an organisation about it. Now the Minister is told that he cannot get information because it is commercially sensitive. How on earth are we supposed to swallow that? How on earth can it be true? The investigators were also very reliably informed that CCTV evidence existed of the alleged fraud yet they chose to accept Coillte’s reply that no evidence existed. The investigators did not even talk to the CCTV company. The investigators said they did not need to talk to the CCTV company because it is employed by Coillte. If someone robbed my house and the gardaí found the person they thought did it and asked that person did he or she rob my house and that person said "No" would they accept that? They would not. It would be ridiculous to accept that but that is the level of the investigation yet we are talking about tens of millions of euro, not my €359 television. We are talking about my children's money and that of future generations.

To judge by the very lame investigation undertaken by Department officials there is a conflict of interest that can be remedied only by the Minister's appointing an independent third party outside the Civil Service, a senior counsel or equivalent, to conduct a proper investigation. The Department officials have even refused to report this to the AGS. People who have worked for years in the industry and have developed and driven it did not even have a report to take away from the meeting. That is an insult. These people, who should be running Coillte, not taking orders from it, are being told that they do not understand how it works. No civil servant could understand how the forestry industry should work better than those who work at the coal face.

There may be tens of millions of euro at stake here. Apparently it is a commercial company. This same commercial company is coming to the State with a begging bowl looking for tens of millions of euro to subsidise its board plant. I suggest that the Department carry out an independent investigation into what it is doing with our money and our resources and then there will be plenty of money to invest in the board plant. Something has to be done about this. The Minister of State might say this has nothing to do with the Forestry Bill but there will be no point in the Forestry Bill if the industry goes down the tubes because no industry can be sustained on the basis of the facts being wrong. Something must be done about this. The media has ignored it. Is that a surprise? No it is not because we know who owns them bugles and who they stand for. The media can ignore it but believe me they are chattering about it as we speak.

The anger is bubbling up about it. I ask the Minister to do something about it.

I have another two years left in the House, maybe no more. In the next two years I will do my damnedest every time the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, rises to his feet to make sure he does something about this issue. If I am given an opportunity to take part in Leaders' Questions next year, every week it will be mentioned. Why is this money being robbed from the State? Why is the right thing not being done? Why is the Government not accountable? Why is the Government not doing what it said it would do and why is it acting no better than former members Lawlor, Haughey, Burkeet al?

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