Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I will be supporting this Bill although with some regret because I believe it could have gone further. Some of those calling for the deletion of the section on suicide do not refer to the 1992 or 2002 referenda. In 1992, there were three separate ballots. The first sought to limit the right based on suicide and the citizens decided they did not want to limit that right. The second was the right to travel which was passed. The third was the right to information which was also passed. The referenda arose from the issues around the X case when a 14 year old brought into sharp focus what was at stake. This was not an academic issue but a real issue for a child.

The 2002 amendment to the Constitution also sought to tighten the constitutional ban on abortion. It would have removed the threat of suicide as grounds for legal abortion in the State. It was rejected by the people. We have a written Constitution that places the citizen at its heart. They have given us a set of instructions which we have failed to put into law over several decades. I cannot think of another issue which would have been so disregarded.

Deputy Keaveney talks about group think. Was it group think in 1992 and 2002? That was not an opinion poll but the people giving us a set of instructions as legislators to take on board and deliver upon. If this section is excluded, how will it be provided for as the people have given it as a constitutional right?

Could someone who is suicidal be committed?

Just think of the consequence if we take it to the logical conclusion. Is the Government going to curtail or remove the right to liberty of a woman or a child?

To our disgrace, we have seen how we have treated women in the past. We have seen things like the Magdalene laundries and the mother and baby homes. It may well be for different reasons. It may well have been partly because of that type of a reason. We have an obligation here. Why did citizens decide to include suicide? It was because the evidence was there that there was a 14 year old child who had been suicidal following a rape. I believe the Irish people displayed the kind of compassion that is a part of something that we can proud of in this country.

Last week I saw similar compassion, but I did not see it in Ireland. I saw it in Liverpool when I went to visit the Liverpool Women's NHS Hospital. The visit was specifically organised for the issue of fatal foetal abnormalities by the group, Doctors for Choice. We met an obstetrician and many other members of the staff in several sections of that fine hospital, which is the biggest maternity hospital in Europe and is attached to the university. I will go into that later if we have time to deal with the next segment. We asked what was different about Irish women. Was there anything noticeable that was different about Irish women when they presented with fatal foetal abnormalities, very often with a much wanted pregnancy? They told us that Irish women expected the staff to judge them and to be judgmental. It is almost a conditioning. They got compassion in another country when they should have got the same compassion and the same duty of care here because of that terribly tragic situation in which they find themselves. I would like the Government today to deal with that issue. If it cannot be dealt with in the context of the eighth amendment, I want to see this Government committing to dealing with that issue by way of referenda because it is absolutely barbaric. I found myself thanking the staff for their compassion, and I felt ashamed that our country could not offer that kind of compassion to the women here.

At a time when a young woman or a child find themselves in a situation where they are suicidal - if it happens to one, if can happen to others - when they need compassion and when they most need their family and friends around them, how does excluding this very restrictive segment from the legislation make them feel about themselves? Does it make them feel judged because they are going to another country? Does it make them judged as well because of the very fact that they are suicidal?

Then there is the issue of floodgates. Floodgates were going to open with artificial contraception, and we had an Irish solution to the Irish problem. We had two referenda on divorce and we had floodgates. The second time it was passed, it was passed with a very restrictive four-year minimum term limit. This morning somebody on the radio said we should relax that. Is there anybody batting an eyelid about that now? No, they are not. This notion of floodgates is rolled out on every single occasion when there is a social issue that needs to be addressed in this country, and we need to grow up and start doing things because they need to be done. We should not take this overly cautious approach.

I have met and spoke with numerous people over the past few months. I find that many men will say that they do not really feel comfortable dealing with this issue, and it is noticeable that they would say it to you. Many women just ask for one thing. They ask to be trusted. It is the women who are asking to be trusted.

One of my amendments was ruled out of order on the basis that it would be a charge on the State. I would love to see what has been the poor relation of the health service, namely, the mental health service, beefed up where it would be at a level that we would all like to see. The reality is that it is currently very under-resourced. I know we are in a very difficult financial situation, but it is an area that needs to be protected. The care path that has been identified would require very significant resources. I do not understand why some amendments are ruled out of order because there will be a charge on the State, while something like this can be included, because it is a very substantial obligation that is being sought. I would love to see it happen.

I believe that much more needs to be done. I will be supporting the legislation, because I think it is movement, even if it is very limited movement.

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