Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I am tempted to say Deputy Wallace is only a TD, to repeat what Deputy Mathews said to me this morning. I do not mean that. This is a House of equals. I have always believed that. I do not think there is any one greater than another.

I start by thanking everyone. That is what the script states and what one is expected to say, but in this case, I genuinely mean it. It is quite a lonely place to be to defend or speak for the rights of prisoners. It has always been that way, and so it will continue. The one person - of course, I would say this, but at the time I was not in the same party as him - I always admired for his stance on prisoners' rights is the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Joe Costello, who had been doing this long before any of us had the courage to stand up and speak on these issues. He deserves enormous credit for that.

I also congratulate the Irish Prison Officers' Association on its launch recognising that it has members, employees within the force, who are LGBT. In what the chairperson of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality, Deputy Stanton, concluded is a most macho of environments, it takes an enormous amount of courage to say one is gay, lesbian, transgender or bisexual. If one considers that it is estimated that between 10% and 12% of the population are gay, bisexual or lesbian, what makes us think that the prison population is any different? However, we do think that.

I cannot disagree with much of what has been said. I come from an area that is significantly disadvantaged and live within a five minute walk from Cork Prison, which I have been in. The circumstances in there are appalling. There is not room to swing a cat. I commend the staff who work in that prison because, as Deputy Stanton correctly states, if one confines offenders and deprives them of their liberty in circumstances where they are so closely confined, tensions are bound to be constantly raised and the circumstances in which staff must work are most difficult. A new prison will work, for both the prison population and those who must administer the system.

Of course, we would like to see a prison where there is only single-cell accommodation, but we are doing the very best we can in the circumstances in which we find ourselves. It is incredible that we are able to find such capital sums to do this, but it is a priority issue because Cork has needed a new prison for much longer than two and a half years. I have visited it on many occasions. Trying to walk around in there is like being in a warren because they have built additional space inside the walls. It is incredibly confined.

I can only imagine, when one is talking about in the main young men, the hyped-up tension. They are deprived of their liberty. Sometimes their relationships on the outside break down and they hear this through the grapevine and that increases the tension as well. A prison service is a high-pressure area in which to work. I am firmly convinced that the fines (amendment) Bill will make a significant impact on the prison population, as will the availability of community service and other areas where we can ask offenders to serve out their punishment delivered by the court. Equally, I have always believed that one third of those in prison should not be in there at all, and I still believe so.

I agree that inputs at an earlier stage would have had a greater impact, but the circumstances in which we find ourselves are what we must dealt with. We must ensure that those who are sentenced by the courts to imprisonment, whether one agrees with it or not, are safe and that their accommodation is reasonable. There is no disagreement on any of that.

I really appreciate the contributions made here today because it is not a subject with which everyone is comfortable. I make no apologies. I have always felt that the changes that need to be made in terms of who goes and does not go to prison are fundamental. The difficulty is that it is not only about the justice system. There are other issues as well.

I really believe there are offenders from whom society needs to be protected. Would any one of us who has looked at the gangland culture that has prevailed down through the years say that those offenders should be given community service? I would say not. In some circumstances, how we treat the prison population and prisoners in those circumstances is different.

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