Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

That is not my word; that is the word chosen by the Acting Chairman. That is what happened. I mean no disrespect to the Minister but that is what happened. The money was allocated by the Oireachtas, it did not go to where it was supposed to go, it was not spent fairly or properly and that is wrong. The result could have been biased.

I am not one of those who went out campaigning on that but I made a decision close to the end of the campaign that the HSE and some of these authorities have too much power. We see that when we look at the report from the Dublin north-west region. I hope the Minister will give us an idea of the reaction to that report. Procedures contained in the Children First guidelines were not consistently implemented. There was no formal child protection notification system that complied with the guidelines in 2011. Worryingly, 38 allegations of concerns about foster carers had been made in the previous 12 months and a significant number had been confirmed. I salute the many foster carers, 99.99% of whom do their very best and should be supported, but the supports are not going the right way. I am shocked to see that where investigations took place and concerns were addressed, the child's social worker investigated the concern, not an independent social worker. We have the same problem with the Water Services Bill. An official will make a decision and if a person wants to appeal that, another official from the same office adjudicates.

This is even worse, it is the same person.

We cannot ever talk about the Water Services Bill or any other Bill in the context of child protection because it is so important. Tragically, we have had to learn so many lessons, with the different reports over the years and now with the Magdalen laundries report. This morning I watched an interesting video in the AV room from an organisation that is well up on what is happening to children all over the world, and it is horrific. We are dealing with the State here. We can never equate it with any of those Bills, but this is very serious. HIQA, of which I have been critical on many occasions, exposed this. These children are the most vulnerable members of society and it is imperative that these issues are addressed as a matter of urgency in the forthcoming child and family support agency.

There have been mistakes. I have written to the Minister, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Health regarding serious long-term issues in my constituency where foster care has not been supported, and I have issues with the HSE which are significant and worrying. That needs to be changed. Yesterday the Joint Committee on Health and Children, of which I am a member, listened to the junior doctors and then to the HSE officials, and they inhabit two different worlds. The HSE is a fairly autocratic organisation. It is not accountable to any Minister. I hope the legislation will encompass that the child and family support agency and any body provided for under the children first Bill will be accountable to the Minister. We need to bring accountability back to this House. It was given away by the previous Governments over ten years. I condemn that. I accept that the big mistake was the setting up of the HSE but we were promised by this Government that it would take back accountability and we have seen no sign of it. The replies to parliamentary questions still state that it is not a matter for the Minister; it is a matter for the HSE. In many cases, the HSE is not capable of doing the business properly, and the waste and the funding involved is significant.

If we can be guaranteed that it is an effort to streamline this process and give the social workers more time to get an understanding of and feeling for the child and the family and the best possible solution, we must think that this is a good aspect to this Bill. If it is a matter of streamlining it from eight days to 29 to allow for a cyclical approach within the four weeks and to allow for one sitting day. We heard the Chief Justice's recent comments about the chaos in the courts. We cannot have HSE officials, social workers and lawyers in the court every eight days, and that is a good aspect of the Bill. Apart from the cost and frustration of it, and the angst to everybody concerned, the family, and the guardians, foster carer or whoever, and above all the child or children, that must be welcomed. It also reduces the costs. I am glad to hear the Minister state that many legal representatives had agreed with the moves here and believe that what is happening is not right or fair, and that we must deal with it.

I would have concerns as to why this took nearly 12 months to bring to this stage. I accept the Minister has a new Department. I wished her well at the outset and I still wish her well. I believe she and her officials are passionately interested in the well-being of all children, as we all are in this House. Why did this take nearly 12 months, if it is so urgent today? It was in the Seanad a month ago. I accept there are difficulties here, with the Finance Bill and other Bills and the IBRC issues and the so-called promissory notes, but it took a month to be presented here after its passage by the Seanad. Why was there such a delay and how long more will it be delayed if the Bills is passed today?

How long will it take to reach a position where there can be a reasonable period given for these care orders for people to go down to the court so that they can look for a solution. The most important aspect for the child is to get a proper cohesive long-term solution to bring some semblance of stability to the unfortunate children who are in these situations through no fault of their own. That is the saddest part of all. There, but for the grace of God, go I or any of us. I referred to that telling short synopsis of a film that was made about the children in slavery in parts of the world today. We must count our blessing here.

As I stated, if the Bill is necessary to change the process, we all would be happy provided that it is copperfastened and that there cannot be any indefinite orders granted. Those I represent are worried, as am I, about indefinite orders. In that regard, the Bill is fairly watertight - pardon the pun about the earlier Bill debated in the House today - and there cannot be any indefinite orders.

We must tidy up our act. We cannot have situations such as occurred in the north west which HIQA investigated. I would like to know from the Minister whether there is systematic examination of care homes and care centres in the regions as occurs in the private nursing home sector. HIQA is relentless. We cannot condone bad practices but it is ridiculous at times where HIQA tries to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear as regards a building. It is fine where there is a new building where one can do all kinds of things at design stage and afterwards through adaptation, but with buildings that are old, such as this House, one cannot make modern facilities. I have no difficulty with cleanliness, proper care and fire regulations, but I worry when HIQA argues over a few centimetres in the size of a room. In this area, has the Minister a full report from HIQA as to the number of inspections nationwide and abroad? I believe we are paying significant sums for foster care and related matters.

There are a number of houses in my community that are purchased for the purposes of foster care and they are run by the HSE. There are all kinds of issues surrounding them. They would not be for young children but there are all kinds of issues and significant costs associated with them. We need to streamline them.

We look forward to the children first Bill. We look forward to engaging with the Minister on it and also on the question of family supports. It is overdue, although I accept the Minister is only a short time in the job. This has to be streamlined and must be kept out of the courts as much as possible. Any of us who have been in a court, even if it was only for a summons for a traffic fine or whatever, will be aware that it is a daunting place to be. It is daunting place for foster carers and I am sure it is not easy either for the social workers because they can be cross-examined. However, there must be accountability. We cannot have situations such as have gone on here in the Dublin region, as referred to in the HIQA report, especially where persons are investigating allegations against themselves. That is farcical and it has gone on for far too long. We can be here and make all kinds of passionate speeches about the McAleese report. At the same time we cannot have this situation happening under the care of the HSE.

There are too many issues of lack of accountability in and too much power being wielded by the HSE. That is why so many voted against the referendum. People had to fight the power and sometimes felt that they were wronged by the power of the State and Big Brother. It was not for fun that they voted against it. Many social workers voted against it because they could not see any big change, and they were not happy. Many care staff also voted against it. It was not for selfish reasons. It was in the interests of the children, on whether we were rushing the legislation, and on why, as I asked, were the moneys misappropriated and used for sending out information on the referendum.

The role of the Referendum Commission was also an issue. It should be let do the job on any referendum without citizens having to go to the courts to exercise fairness and straightness. When the Supreme Court made the order, the Minister for Justice and Equality on the 1 o'clock news was still referring back to the High Court. He did the same on the 6 o'clock news, when I was on the programme with him. The Minister is a man who should know better because he is a solicitor of some renown and experience. The Supreme Court is the highest court in the land and he was referring back to the High Court, which had upheld the action taken by the Minister and her Department. Citizens had to pay their own money to take a case and I commend them. I salute Mr. Mark McCrystal. I salute the lady, whose name eludes me, who is still contesting that decision, not for anarchy or for the reason, but because there must be fair play. We were promised so much of that by this Administration and we have seen very little of it. We have seen a bureaucratic system, a lack of transparency, rushed legislation, voting in the middle of the night and countless guillotines. A guillotine has been mentioned in respect of this legislation even though the Minister did not need it because she had the co-operation of all parties.

I thank the Acting Chairman, Deputy Mathews for his forbearance and the incoming Acting Chairman, Deputy Ann Phelan.

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