Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)

This is not a holistic group. The consultation proved there are a variety of different responses required by the people who suffered abuse and it is for that reason I feel we should provide the maximum flexibility possible. These were people who had a portion or all of their childhood controlled and stolen and who were not allowed any individualism. Therefore, we owe them the ability to tell us what they want and what is right for them as individuals rather than as a group. The State took control of these people's lives and now it is taking control again. Of the nine people to be nominated by the Minister, the majority, five, are people who have not been in this situation, while four have. I wonder why control of this was not given to those survivors.

When discussing these issues, we must remember those people who broke the silence, people like Christine Buckley, for whom I have enormous respect, and the late Mary Raftery. We should never speak about this issue without remembering the service she gave and the debt of gratitude we owe her. Children who were in institutions were shunned and were always considered to have been in the institution for a reason. Some of the reasons were that their parents had died, they had missed school or something more serious. Being in an institution was not regarded as normal and as a result the children felt they had less value as people. This is an attitude that is very difficult to change as people go through life and many of these people have been hugely damaged by it.

I remember attending Goldenbridge for sixth class. Ironically, my mother thought the school I was in was too violent and she sent me to Goldenbridge. There were two schools in Goldenbridge at the time, one internal and the other the regular primary school, which I attended. There were a few "orphans", as they were called, in my class. These were the lucky, bright ones who got the opportunity to attend the regular school. They were the cream of the crop or money had been provided for them. I was aware that those children worked before they came to school and after they finished school each day. I could see the marks on their hands from making the rosary beads, which was the work they did. We did not see into their lives in the institution and they did not see out. All I saw was the few girls in the class with me. Goldenbridge orphanage was an institution on a par with a prison and that is what we are talking about here. What we did not see came out later on and was revealed in the programmes made by Mary Raftery. What went on was horrific.

I lived near Artane as a child, before moving to the wild west of Palmerstown. In Artane people saw the lucky boys being brought out for a walk. They walked two-by-two in their grey jerseys. People crossed to the other side of the street when they saw these boys. They did not talk to people and people did not talk to them. These are the sorts of conditions we are talking about. How can we make people forget this or the abuse that went on? We must listen to these people and must provide the maximum flexibility to them to be individuals, as they were not allowed do that in their childhood. It was stolen from them and they suffered horrific abuse.

This is what concerns me in the case of this Bill. Deputy O'Sullivan has gone into detail with regard to the formality of making an application and so on. What I see happening is that the people who need it most will be the people least able to put themselves through the application process, because it is too hurtful. My main concerns are the lack of flexibility and concern for individuals.

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