Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the European Financial Stability Facility and Euro Area Loan Facility (Amendment) Bill 2011. The Bill arises out of a European Council decision of 24 June and a European summit of 21 July which agreed to increase the EFSF from €278 billion to allow for a loan facility of up to €440 billion to be provided to member states. It also included the lowering of the interest rates, which has been much lauded by Members on the Government side of the House as a success for the Irish negotiating stance. The reduction in interest rates was, in fact, a response to the deepening crisis throughout the eurozone. The Government is being disingenuous in claiming responsibility for it, when the rates were merely overtaken by events.

It is surreal to stand here in September and debate legislation that will copperfasten changes that were announced in June and strengthened in July, when the crisis has deepened over the last couple of months and has moved on rapidly since then. We saw the downgrade of Italian debt in the last couple of days. The two largest French banks have been downgraded. Everyone is openly talking about a Greek restructuring, or default, and the possibility of Greece even being forced out of the euro. There is no mechanism for forcing any member state out of the euro. There is not even a mechanism for a state to leave the euro. That has not even been worked on.

This is what makes this debate so strange and is, perhaps, why most of the debate has not focused on the EFSF. Events have moved on so quickly since June. Events continually overtake each other. I am reminded of the British Prime Minister who, when asked why he had lost an election replied, "Events, dear boy, events". Events are overtaking what we are doing here. We are not in control.

The situation is made even more stark by the continued obsession of the Government with forcing deeper austerity on our people. Other Deputies have said that people need some sort of clarity so that confidence can be returned. As we continue down this road and as the crisis in Europe deepens further, leading inevitably to a Greek restructuring and the effect that will have, the EFSF will make no difference at all.

I was interested to hear the Taoiseach flatly refuse to answer Deputy Ross this morning when he asked how much more of our independence or sovereignty he was willing to cede to our, so called, European paymasters in Germany and France. That is the key question that the Government must answer. We must have a debate on this issue in the coming months. The ESM provides an opportunity for that debate. The Government has already agreed, and Europe has pushed for this treaty change to be brought in by the simplified mechanism, under the Lisbon treaty. I believe this treaty change is too extensive. It cedes too much of our sovereignty to Europe and gives away our national sovereignty. Therefore, we must have a full public debate on it and a referendum where the people can have their say. If the people are so much in favour of this change and want it to happen, as the Government repeatedly tells us they do, they should have their say and be allowed to vote on the ESM. The Government would then have the mandate which it says it has already. Last February, the people voted for change. What they got was more of the same. We must move on to that debate, because events in Europe are fast overtaking any discussion we are having on the European Financial Stability Mechanism.

Deputies on the Government side say we can only do what we can. This is true, but we must talk about a Europe of equals and of partners. We do not need to cede more and more sovereignty to Europe and give Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy more and more rights and control over our sovereignty and our future. When Greek restructuring occurs, arguments will be made in favour of handing even more fiscal responsibility to Europe and a Commissioner for fiscal matters who can overlook errant member states and force policy changes on them. That is a ceding of sovereignty and that is the debate we should be having in the House and throughout the country. The Government should have the courage of its convictions. Instead of refusing to answer questions in the House and deflecting them onto other issues, it should be telling us what the Commission intends to do. It should let the people have their say and their vote on it and see if that is the way we want to go.

We should be talking about a Europe of equal members and equal respect and a Europe that can deal with these financial problems rather than a Europe where Germany and France are leading the charge and forcing austerity on the so-called peripheral countries and forcing us into destroying our domestic economies in order that we can ultimately save the German and French banks. Even that is not working at this stage because the French banks have been downgraded and German banks are in need of capitalisation. The IMF stated yesterday that Europe has to grasp the nettle and recapitalise their own banks. We are moving beyond the austerity packages we have in Ireland, but the Government does not seem to be having that debate with Europe. The Government is intent on ensuring we are seen to be the best boys in the class. Members on the Government side of the House might not like to hear that, but that is its policy. If we are seen as the best boys in the class, we can be held up and seen as shining lights.

Our bond yields have been reduced from 14% to 8.5%. That still leaves us nowhere near the ability to go to the so-called markets to fund the State. Events will take place over the next few weeks and months that will push up those yields even further again. We will be no closer to having any control on that. In the meantime, we have a jobs initiative that has clearly failed, we have continued austerity, and a budget will be brought forward that will take another €4 billion out of the local economy. People are faced with more uncertainty, even more debt, an inability to work their out of it, and a sapping of confidence, yet in a few months we will still be faced with a Greek restructuring and the possible break-up of the euro.

The Government needs to open up the debate, put the ESM Bill before the House and let it be passed, and then put the question to the people in the form of a referendum. The people should be allowed to decide whether they want to go down this road. If the people want greater fiscal control to be handed to Brussels and the European Commission, then that is their democratic wish, but the Government should let them have their say.

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