Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

Many low-paid people in the public service are in for the shock of their lives when they find out they are subject to this levy. I want to talk in particular about those who work as outdoor staff for the county councils and the many people working in the Houses here who are not civil servants, but might be called industrial civil servants. They pay full PRSI for a contributory old age pension. They also pay a reduced rate of superannuation on their gross incomes less twice the old age pension to give them a small top-up pension when they retire, based on 40 years service. My father worked for CIE, and many of us who have families or parents who worked for bodies such as the county councils are very familiar with this system of a small additional pension. One pays PRSI, one's main income on retirement is the old age pension and one receives a very small, but very welcome, additional pension through the top-up from the extra superannuation one paid on one's gross income less twice the old age pension. That is broadly how it is calculated.

From the Minister's interpretation such people will pay the levy on their entire gross incomes, even though if they earn, say, €700 per week gross, and twice the old age pension is €400, they pay their superannuation at a reduced rate based on €700 minus €400, which is €300. They will pay the levy on the whole amount. That will bear disproportionately on them. They may have overtime and other special payments, and there are thousands of special payments in the public service, as the Minister knows, particularly in the health and county council areas. Most of these people do not know yet that they will be subject to the levy.

Deputy Bruton mentioned home helps. The Minister probably knows there are two categories of home helps: those directly employed by the HSE and those who work as ward assistants. They are very often in the same category, although they are on a higher hourly rate. According to the Minister, they will be subject to the levy if paid directly by the HSE. However, if they are paid by an organisation which receives a grant-in-aid from the HSE they will not be subject to the levy. The room for chaos regarding very low paid people is profound. We are offering the Minister a variety of ways out of this because administering this will be costly, by the time one sorts out the different entitlements. There is also a basic unfairness.

I will draw the Garda situation to the Minister's attention. This applies to a lesser extent to the Defence Forces. Most gardaí have to serve only 30 years to get a full pension. Therefore at a certain stage they are contributed out, if they stay for 40 years. For many of those who have between 30 and 40 years service and might be at sergeant or inspector level, once this levy comes in on all their overtime earnings, the Minister is creating an enormous financial incentive for them to retire early, take their lump sum and get some other part-time or full-time employment. I see the Minister nodding his head. If he tells me these people will not be subject to the levy that is different. In the Garda at the level of sergeant and inspector there are probably approximately 1,900 such members. The Minister is clearly charging them for a pension benefit which will give them no extra entitlements.

The same is true of people serving in the Defence Forces. We still have not clarified whether all of the various allowances paid to members of the Defence Forces and the Garda at different times will be subject to the pension levy. I strongly suggest that not ironing out these anomalies is deeply unfair.

There will be consternation in the ranks of the lower paid, particularly in local authorities and in the old health board systems, hospitals, etc., when they find out how this will operate. It is the 11th hour but I plead with the Minister to sort it out.

I am still not convinced how in the HSE, or the old health board structures where there is not a unified salaries computer system, the Minister will implement the complications inherent in the levy as proposed. When will it be implemented because it will be an administrative nightmare for IT sections?

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