Pat Carey (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)

I wish to share time with Deputy McGuinness.

I find it unusual to take part in a Second Stage debate on the Bill currently before the House because, having reviewed the Minister's speech on the matter, the legislation that eventually emerges from this process will include many new provisions, therefore changing much of the Bill. While I support the general thrust of the Bill as currently published, I am not willing to write the Minister a blank cheque for the issues he is concerned with or, for those that have been referred to in the media. Therefore, in addition to commenting on the provisions of this Bill, I will refer to additions that can be made to make it more effective.

Everyone agrees there is no acceptable level of crime and any fear of crime within a community is unacceptable. Unfortunately, despite the fact that levels of crime have fallen in recent years, people's expectations of being victims of crime continue to grow. For this reason, I am in favour of measures that will enable a more effective fight against crime. It is our job to make provision to protect people while, at the same time, we consider ways to successfully prevent crime and, more importantly, to prevent people becoming involved in criminal activity. In this context, I refer to some of the major issues included in the Bill before the House, especially as they relate to children.

A recent development in policing may be the most fundamental advance for communities for several years, namely, the increase in co-operation between the Garda Síochána, local authorities and community representatives. The development of joint policing committees is an excellent initiative for which I warmly compliment the Minister. These committees will provide a forum where the Garda Síochána and the local authorities can co-operate and work together to address local policing issues such as estate management, planning, traffic, street lighting and public order. Their role is to facilitate discussion on matters of local concern and to develop new strategies to combat problems.

I represent Dublin North West, where incidences of anti-social behaviour and low level crime have caused serious problems in some areas. However, contact among local residents associations, garda liaison officers and public representatives has been of tremendous benefit in combatting such offences. I regularly attend the Safer Ballymun and Safer Finglas meetings aimed at increasing local co-operation with the Garda Síochána and building trust in the authorities in the area. On both counts, they have been very successful. At these meetings, we have recognised that crime and anti-social behaviour are societal problems and therefore need to be dealt with by society as a whole. We have recognised that if we lumber the entire responsibility on to the Garda, we do ourselves and our community a grave disservice. In saying that, I also believe that Garda numbers and visibility are of the utmost importance. I am an ardent supporter of community policing, which has long been treated as a poor relation of the Garda services. In the past, community policing has lacked resources, promotional prospects and status within the force. If we are to keep the Garda on board in a real partnership with the community, we must ensure community policing receives as much funding and support as necessary. I know the Garda budget is now at an all-time high and I call on the Minister to ensure that funding continues and grows in order for community policing to flourish.

I compliment the Minister for introducing Operation Anvil. In the last two weeks in my constituency it has been successful in combating a number of issues that have been of concern to us for some time. While I do not wish to stray into the issues raised by the publication of the report of the Morris tribunal, it is imperative that every measure is taken to ensure that trust is restored and maintained in the Garda force.

I wish to deal with children in our criminal justice system. There has been much debate over the last two months regarding the introduction of anti-social behaviour orders or ASBOs. Before anyone gets into the rights and wrongs of this scenario, I wish to discuss how children are treated in our criminal justice system. The sad truth is that the Children's Court system is failing our young people. Rather than removing them from criminal activity it is causing them to enter an endless cycle of offending and detention. This is the awful reality that many people face every day. Many of my young constituents are caught up in this system, their families are affected entirely by it and I cannot let the opportunity pass by without discussing it.

A recent study of approximately 1,000 cases in the Children's Courts in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Waterford has highlighted that a lack of support and early intervention for young offenders means that detention is not being used as a measure of last resort but rather as a measure of system breakdown. The report found that there has been a significant increase in detention rates from 10% to more than 20% in recent years, rising to almost 30% if suspended sentences are included. The majority of the cases in the study involved young males aged between 16 and 17 who tended to come from backgrounds of disadvantage and poverty. A range of problems was prevalent among the children studied, including mental health issues, behavioural problems and alcohol and drug addiction. Despite presenting with such problems, the courts did not appreciate the complexity of the issues facing the child in many cases. While few cases overall resulted in custodial sentences, many of the children were granted bail with conditions such as a curfew, restrictions on movement or a direction to stay away from alcohol and drugs. This is the type of restorative justice that we hope will stop children taking up criminal activity in the first place.

However, the reality is that this is not happening. The lack of bail support and lack of resources for the probation services means that many of these conditions are too difficult, time-consuming and too draining and are setting up young people to fail. If these children end up serving a custodial sentence, the possibility of them halting their criminal activity as adults is very slight. For example, if we look at figures from Trinity House in Lusk, which is one of the few links in the juvenile justice system that experts believe to be working, almost one half of the offenders there end up in adult prisons within six months of their release. Even if they avoid further detention, they often end up in health board care or become homeless. This is unacceptable and cannot continue.

Before we introduce another way in which our children may end up in the criminal justice system — through ASBOs — the Minister should ensure the Children's Court system is radically improved because it is currently failing children and us. Having spent 30 years in primary teaching, most of which was spent in youth work, I believe that 99% of young people are not intent on causing wanton damage even when they are playing loud music and wearing hooded tops. They can be intimidating but there is a big difference between that and being involved in anti-social behaviour.

There is growing concern about incidents of anti-social behaviour. In my constituency, I am aware of many vulnerable people, particularly old people, who are subjected to serious nuisance and forms of harassment, which can cause great distress. However, I also know that when it comes to resolving juvenile crime, it is best to use a holistic approach and keep everyone — gardaí, parents, community representatives and schools — involved. This is just a short list of the various groups that need to be involved in dealing with juvenile crime. We need to combat anti-social behaviour but we also need to provide a range of responses that can be tailored by the courts to meet the needs and circumstances of individual young people.

Where the behaviour of young people is difficult to manage or out of control but is not criminal, the Children Act 2001 already contains progressive measures to address this situation by diverting them from future criminal activity. Garda diversion programmes, family conferences and community sanctions are some of the many ways we can decrease anti-social behaviour and low-level crime. The Act should be fully implemented and resourced to allow this system to work. Finding resources can often be difficult but in 2002 the annual cost to the State of keeping a boy in Trinity House was nearly €250,000 and these funds could be better used by resourcing the Children Act.

I congratulate the Minister on his efforts thus far in introducing legislation to increase our fight against crime, increasing the Garda budget, introducing joint policing committees and supporting community policing. All these measures will certainly make the fight against crime more effective. While I support the thrust of the Bill, I urge the Minister to take the concerns of many Members about certain elements of it on board. I also ask him to consider the points I have raised about our current juvenile justice system and current legislation covering juvenile crime before introducing further ways to deal with these young people. I look forward to keeping a close eye on the debate on this Bill and as the debate develops, to seeing the fruits of this in the final Bill presented to the House.

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