David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

-----and I will let the Minister respond. Quarterly meetings take place between officials in the Department of Health and the Department of public expenditure and reform. Two meetings took place on 3 October and 6 October. The Ministers for Health and public expenditure were present, as were officials. Bids were presented by the Department of Health, which come from the HSE. The HSE is not involved in that process. It is the Department that does the negotiations. In all of the commentary and in the briefing notes that were given, the view of the Minister's Department was that the Department of Health was coming in with too big an ask. It does not make sense from his Department's perspective. It does not agree with the inflation levels, even though the head of the HSE has stated that it is what they are. There is talk about mismanagement of the health budget, health funding being out of control and not giving the figures because it might then become a negotiation. None of that to me sounds like two Departments that are trying to come up with the right figure. It just does not sit with me.

The Minister has said the Department needs to provide information. Of course the Department would have provided that. There were two meetings. I make this final point and let the Minister respond. I am sure all of those issues I am raising around inflation, increased demand, the levels of ELS were presented by the Department and the Minister for Health. I am sure the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, is not going to tell me that none of that was done, no data was provided and no evidence was provided for any of the assertions made by the Department. If that was the case maybe the Minister might explain it to us. I agree with the Chair. Departments have a duty to put forward their case but the Department of Health did, at very high-level meetings. It seems from the documentation we have seen, that that level of mistrust was very clear. The does not bode well for how our health services should be funded. I will leave it at that. I have made my point. I will let the Minister respond.